Author Topic: Big & Wide addendum coming  (Read 752 times)

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Brian.Dixon

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Big & Wide addendum coming
« on: March 13, 2019, 08:50:24 AM »
Over the years, I have received a lot of requests for making the Great Alaskan much bigger ... sometimes outlandishly big, as in "would need a total redesign".  That said, it's interesting to note that I did design the boat conservatively and it does have room for changes without compromising stability and performance.  I did that because I knew it would be a homebuilt boat and people need the flexibility to make their build a 'dream boat' build, lots of variation being acceptable.

So, why am I writing?  Well, I've decided to go with it to some degree and offer a Big & Wide option for the boat design, sold separately as an addendum (probably only $20 for the addendum).  This addendum will increase the waterline beam by a total of 4", and will increase the maximum beam (at the gunnels) to 9' 4" wide.  Loftings will be given for chine flats and sheer-deck shelves, shelf molds, and transom - all derived from accurate CAD models and drawings.  I haven't decided, but I may increase the depth of the hull by 2 to 4 inches as well - I need to model the changes so I can find out if the side panel plywood will span the distance (4' wide plywood).  Loftings will be provided for a default 28' boat, plus adjustments for 27', 29', and 30'.  The biggest boat that you could build from the plans+addendum would be 9'4" wide by 30' long (please do not ask me to go past these dimensions!  If you need or want bigger, I would suggest Mr. Sam Devlin... or switch to aluminum and go with the design of your choice from Specialty Marine in Oregon, http://www.specmar.com )

I will likely have the addendum packaged up and ready to go within 4 or 5 weeks.  Consider this a pre-announcement and an open discussion.  Thanks!  I look forward to your feedback!

Brian

« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 04:16:05 PM by Brian.Dixon »
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json

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 05:50:30 PM »
Brian, you mention the chine flats, sheer deck shelves, shelf molds, and transom - will this change the dimensions of the fairbody as well? I am at sort of a pivotal point in my build where maybe I will redo the chines, shelves, and transom if it means I have an extra (almost) foot of beam. A bit more info would be great, thanks!

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 06:14:20 PM »
Brian, you mention the chine flats, sheer deck shelves, shelf molds, and transom - will this change the dimensions of the fairbody as well? I am at sort of a pivotal point in my build where maybe I will redo the chines, shelves, and transom if it means I have an extra (almost) foot of beam. A bit more info would be great, thanks!

No ... I am not changing the fairbody or bottom panel loftings at this time.  If I did, it would only be for full-house 'heavy' builds since to maintain a sufficient waterline, the boat would need more displacement if the bottom panels were changed.  I can provide a sketch to show why this is true if you like.  The changes above do not significantly add to the boat's capacity (other than due to the length increase to 'up to 30 ft'), FYI.  It's more about bigger and roomier than it is about capacity.  The boat already has capacity to spare and can carry a full TON more than I specify, as proven by Kent Cannon with his 29+ footer and total displacements of over 8000 pounds.

Does that help?

Brian

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 06:32:48 PM »
Bigger and roomier is sort of what I was looking for, especially in the cockpit (am probably building a short house in the interest of more room out back). I don't think I can build longer than 28' even though 30' sounds absolutely awesome. Does it help? I am not sure, now I have a decision to make haha.

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 08:34:02 AM »
Bigger and roomier is sort of what I was looking for, especially in the cockpit (am probably building a short house in the interest of more room out back). I don't think I can build longer than 28' even though 30' sounds absolutely awesome. Does it help? I am not sure, now I have a decision to make haha.

Are you building a cuddy too?  What heavy items will you have in the boat?  Batteries, fuel tanks and size, appliances, heavy-duty glass windows etc?  As the boat gets bigger, it is best if it also gets heavier .... for example, I do not recommend the Big & Wide for an open deck / center console unless the boat's going to always have a lot of gear and people in it.  Still, this is why no changes to the bottom panels ... just chine and sheer widths.  These changes give you more room without requiring a lot more displacement.  They will also result in needing a Wide Load permit to haul anywhere but on a 'shortest route' from where the boat is stored and it's port (see interstate highway regs - your DMV can help out).

Brian

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json

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 10:27:20 AM »
Thanks Brian. I am planning on a somewhat shortened version of the pilothouse/cuddy from the Newport (I am 5'10" so shorter cuddy probably, and maybe a 6' pilothouse, although maybe stretch that to 8' if I build to 30'). Something along the lines of a Defiance Admiral pilothouse in proportion for house/cockpit. I am thinking at least 100 gallons of fuel (ideally around 150 gallons), a 120 gallon bait tank, a small fresh-water tank (maybe 10 - 20 gallons), marine head, and dreaming about a seakeeper 2 underneath the bait tank (those run about 400 lbs) at some point down the line. So from a displacement perspective, I don't think I am going to be running on the light side very often, and definitely will have times where I am running on the heavy side. Hopefully a pilothouse in general is enough to make the big/wide version float deep enough to not cause issues. If I needed to build with heavy in mind I could always do that too.

Not changing the keel panels or lofting is what's making this change entertain-able for me. If I had to go buy another thousand dollars of plywood to do it I think that would be a deal breaker. Is the size of the jig going to change for a 30' boat or the wide version of the 28'? If it did change could I make the jig for the 28' standard boat work? Could I add length to the stringers to do a 30', maybe scarf on an extra couple feet or even just glue a couple 6 foot LVL to the sides and offset the transom notches? What's the name for a 'great' Great Alaskan?

As for the wide load permit, in California it isn't really a big deal from my understanding, you just pay for an annual permit for something like $90 and you are pretty much good to go. All local tows around here are all well-built infrastructure, with lots of people towing large boats.

fishon78

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 11:29:32 AM »
Brian,

On the 2" to 4" higher sides, you mentioned your thinking about. I would think that 4" higher sides would make sense for a big and wide version, being most all builds would have a raised floor for a self-bailing deck for offshore use. From what I have read most build have raised the floors 4" to get the scuppers safely above the water line. I do like fishing out of a boat with high sides. I have fished out of a friends parker and never liked how low the sides have felt. Boats with higher sides have always felt safer, especially when standing at the rail jiging in choppy seas. I hope to see the sides raised on the big boy, Just my 2 cents on your higher side thoughts.

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 02:59:25 PM »
json, I have the same questions and will wait until doing the CAD work before answering some of it.  Longer jigs and stringers are probably best made by scarfing them together ... edgewise cut, not a face-side cut like you do when scarfing plywood.  The drawings will show what to do.  In any case, your build sounds like exactly the right thing for the Big & Wide version....

fishon78, The higher sides will be part of the deal unless the plywood doesn't fit.  We'll see.  But I'm the same ... higher sides, shorter (as in 'less tall') house ... looks good and is safer.

Brian

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kennneee

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 07:08:30 PM »
Brian- Curious what the waterline beam is on the standard GA and the big mama? Thanks.

Alpine74

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 09:35:46 PM »
Sounds good Brian, waiting for the addendum.  Thanks for reconsidering.

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 06:31:37 AM »
Brian- Curious what the waterline beam is on the standard GA and the big mama? Thanks.

Rounding off, the current beam at the DWL amidships is about 78".  The wider beam will be about 82" at the waterline.

Current widest beam at the gunnels is 8'5", and the wider beam version will be close to 9'2".

Brian

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Todd j

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 09:14:01 AM »
Oh man.  I didn’t sleep at all last night.  I went down the rabbit hole!  I have just a few things I would like to ask you Brian.  The answers will likely kill the notion of the Greater Alaskan for me.  I too am at a spot where it’s not too late to go BIG!
 
1).  Could I loft  the transom on 1/4”  and laminate my current transom and just “ fill in the gaps”?

2). Will any portion of the aft shear decks be re-usable?

3). Would it be possible to use the same technique in question 1 for the chines since only the outer chine line changes?

This is very exciting stuff by the way. Thanks

kennneee

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 09:40:20 AM »
Brian- Does your crystal ball give you an idea how the new boats performance/motion will compare to the standard model with the greater WL beam and chine flat width assuming the same length of say 26ft?
Ken

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 02:13:02 PM »
Oh man.  I didn’t sleep at all last night.  I went down the rabbit hole!  I have just a few things I would like to ask you Brian.  The answers will likely kill the notion of the Greater Alaskan for me.  I too am at a spot where it’s not too late to go BIG!
 
1).  Could I loft  the transom on 1/4”  and laminate my current transom and just “ fill in the gaps”?

2). Will any portion of the aft shear decks be re-usable?

3). Would it be possible to use the same technique in question 1 for the chines since only the outer chine line changes?

This is very exciting stuff by the way. Thanks

1) Converting the original transom to the wider-taller one can be done.  Note that it would basically add extra wood around the sides and top, starting at the chines up.  The weakest link would be the 2" or so on either side running up the sides.  The transom knees, deck, and motor boards would all be supporting the 'side extensions', and when you glass and fillet the corners, you can run wide to overlap glass over the joint.  I'm sure it would be fine, but if your motor boards are already on your original transom, I might consider just making a new transom instead.

2) Aft sheer decks... The changes involved for the sheer will likely only influence the forward half, and the stern would taper in the same amount as they do now.  I'll aim for doing it that way and fill you in more later.

3) Probably, because as you say, only the outer line is getting changed (moved out).  The glass lay-up over the chine joints is pretty heavy, so should be fine.

Brian
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Big & Wide addendum coming
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2019, 02:16:56 PM »
Brian- Does your crystal ball give you an idea how the new boats performance/motion will compare to the standard model with the greater WL beam and chine flat width assuming the same length of say 26ft?
Ken

For the 26 footer, the aspect ratio (waterline length to width) is optimized pretty tightly, but 4" wider wouldn't be a terrible thing.  Very few boats are very optimized and they seem to work.  Still, the greater width is targeted at the 28+ foot long boats because their extra length has the opposite problem ... they are a little less optimal because the length grew while the width did not.  The extra width results in a pretty tight optimization for the 28-29 foot boats.  Loftings will be provided for 27' through 30' (and again: I'm NOT going to stretch the boat longer than 30'!  All those 2-foot-itis guys will be on their own for longer than 30'!)

Brian
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