Author Topic: Ed's boat in Perth  (Read 66097 times)

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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2012, 06:23:19 AM »
Some more pix a friend took
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2012, 11:38:38 AM »
I completely forgot that you were going with a tunnel ...it sure helps the draft, doesn't it?
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Murray in N.Z.

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2012, 03:23:26 PM »
Bryan......
Native Maori language..
Waka = canoe
Waipiro;    Wai = water  Piro= rotten/smelly.... booze, satans syrup, idiot soup, singing syrup, intelligence enhancer.... call it what you like.
'Moko; When referred to people is short 4 mokopuna= grandchild. otherwise its a chin/lower facial tattoo
Plurry; no Bs or Ds in the Maori alfabet closest to B is P and Rs are pronounced kinda hard almost like scottish, sounds like a soft D  hence bloddy becomes plurry.
The Swan; A bit of a creek/river that runs thru Perth..check it out on Google earth
Camper; Emirates Team N.Z. entry into the Volve ocean race..... had a bit of an oops when some internal structures delaminated and they had to do repairs mid ocean and again in Chile... some how its skippered by a plurry Ozzie!!!! I spose thats OK coz most of the other countries crews are run by Kiwis. 
http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/#!ocean
Eds Mates:   Blokes that turn up , drink his beer, eat his kai(food) then help him turn the boat ova. Then drink more coz it was 5 thirsty minutes work.
Ka Pai; Very good, Ok.

Dont let Ed look at the pics of RICE nozzles on this site... he will want one hanging under the poor boat.

http://www.propellerpages.com/?c=nozzles&f=Speed_Nozzle_Tests

Gawd ormighty..... they even used Eds beloved 365 Hp engines and have an Ozzie agent.
Sorry Brian, your once lovely hull design will never be the same.

Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2012, 02:27:31 AM »
hahahahahaha, nice one Muzza! frozen swedes need thoring out, that'll do it! (swede maori for noggin)
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2012, 11:08:03 AM »
Thanks!  It's almost like you need an english-aussy dictionary or something.. hahaha

The only aussy term that I heard in the past was when I dated a gal from down there (long ago) and that was "sheila" ...I don't know if it's derogatory or not, e.g. same as "bimbo" or does it just mean "a gal"?

Brian

PS: Those rice nozzles are cool but did you catch the prop sizes they were using them on?  66" diameter (and similar) giant trawler props?  Not sure if they'd work as well on smaller props, but they sure had good numbers to report.  They're more efficient for the same reasons turbofans are more efficient than turboprops on airplanes ...fluid moving outward is forced rearward and gives propulsion rather than just wasted effort...
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2012, 11:53:34 PM »
Thanks!  It's almost like you need an english-aussy dictionary or something.. hahaha

The only aussy term that I heard in the past was when I dated a gal from down there (long ago) and that was "sheila" ...I don't know if it's derogatory or not, e.g. same as "bimbo" or does it just mean "a gal"?

Brian

PS: Those rice nozzles are cool but did you catch the prop sizes they were using them on?  66" diameter (and similar) giant trawler props?  Not sure if they'd work as well on smaller props, but they sure had good numbers to report.  They're more efficient for the same reasons turbofans are more efficient than turboprops on airplanes ...fluid moving outward is forced rearward and gives propulsion rather than just wasted effort...

Ha! Sheila is all good here, used in NZ too, not the same as bimbo though. "She's my Sheila"

Those rice nossles look great! similar to Renato Levi's plagiarized design way back.... he's Italian, meet him once in NZ when I was apprentice boat builder he was sponsored there. Got him to sign his book lol.....

Hadda look at a launched red Alaskan Brian, was that the guy in Oregon? was it built to 26ft?

You can watch me build at times if you have skype, I set up the cam in the shed, 'the_edster' is me.
shes on now. 2pm Oz time now
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2012, 11:54:51 PM »
I completely forgot that you were going with a tunnel ...it sure helps the draft, doesn't it?

"Were" is the operative word there lol.....
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2012, 12:02:40 PM »
OK ...My ol' brain is fuzzy ...you said something about a 300 hp outboard now, right?  Seems like a lot, but you have a 30' boat too.  We'll see.  I'm a "shoot for the best gas mileage" kind of guy, which usually means "enough horsepower, but not much more".  For safety (and fun) however, extra horsepower isn't bad.

I believe that red boat that's in the slide show for Adrian's boat in Oregon is a stretched Tolman Jumbo, not a Great Alaskan.  I don't know who's it is, but no Great Alaskans have launched that I know of ...unless someone built one on the stealth and never said a word about it.  I think Adrian saw that boat on the Columbia River, Oregon.

Brian



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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2012, 04:05:20 AM »
OK ...My ol' brain is fuzzy ...you said something about a 300 hp outboard now, right?  Seems like a lot, but you have a 30' boat too.  We'll see.  I'm a "shoot for the best gas mileage" kind of guy, which usually means "enough horsepower, but not much more".  For safety (and fun) however, extra horsepower isn't bad.

I believe that red boat that's in the slide show for Adrian's boat in Oregon is a stretched Tolman Jumbo, not a Great Alaskan.  I don't know who's it is, but no Great Alaskans have launched that I know of ...unless someone built one on the stealth and never said a word about it.  I think Adrian saw that boat on the Columbia River, Oregon.

Brian

Ah ha, got it, interesting how she leans to Stbd with the guy fishing that side, thought that may happen with your design as most production fizz boats do too, being that they have a trailer-able beam.

Been orbital sanding the ship outta the inside as she was epoxy coated long ago and one of my lamination's (at the forward end of the Stbd bearer) when sanding it doesn't feather out, the lamination chips away when getting thin - feathering out.... kapice? A concern. This bit of lamination was done to strengthen the ends of the bearers b4 turning down side up..... didn't want any dramas, and it's a hell of a job glassing down side up  ;D

Ed
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2012, 12:50:41 PM »
The GA's transverse metacentric height (GMt) is a bit taller than your average deep-V glass boat and the boat will be stiffer as a result, e.g. it will a) roll with the waves a tad more, but b) will not heel over as much when people move to the rail.  The GMt was selected according to what semi-dory hulls typically have and is one of the factors that helps this boat bob up and over swells and waves rather than allowing the water to ride up the side (riskier).  It makes the boat safer when at rest or adrift.

As far as that flaking epoxy goes, if it is in addition to the required glass schedule, then I'll leave it up to you on what to do.  If it is part of the required glass, then you'll want to fix it.  Flaking epoxy generally occurs from one of two things.  Either a) the epoxy did not bond to the surface that it was applied to, or b) the resin/hardener ratio was off and there was either too little resin or too much hardener.  Too much hardener (versus the resin) results in a more brittle epoxy ...If you insist on making a mistake (haha), it's better to lean towards too much resin (versus the hardener) ...you'll just get a slightly more flexible result and that's not bad.  We're talking about small errors here, so don't go away thinking that I'm being cavalier.  Now on the other hand, if the epoxy did not bond to the substrate, then it could be because of a foreign material being on the surface (dust, grease, amine blush, etc) or the surface was very smooth and well-cured (months?).  I once had to use a carbide scraper to scrape off a brittle layer of epoxy on an entire sheet of ply ...and all I can figure is that I must've gotten the ratio wrong and the stuff turned out to be too brittle.  After scraping off all the old epoxy (you can also pull off fiberglass that didn't bond), I washed it all down with a strong ammonia/water mix, sanded with 80-grit, blew it off with compressed air, then washed with the strong ammonia/water mix again.  After that, I recoated and was careful to make sure the resin/hardener ratio was exact and well mixed ...no problems after that.  Chit happens...

Brian
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2012, 11:23:31 AM »
Great answers!
All good on the mumbo on the design, eye did underkastumble right up to wen me eyes started to glaze ova a bit.. :-\.. hehe,.

I ground off the offending laminate Brian. Was an important laminate.
Yes she's been cured a while that existing layup, probably 18 mths or as much as 24!
So all day today been grinding/orbital sanding the entire inside.... got itches to prove it too, an annoyed neighbors to boot! Bummer really, that was the idea to use peal ply, no sanding, oh well, that'll learn me.
Didn't want to have a repeat on ANY surface, got heaps of filleting and some laminating done.

Update/confirmation on propulsion system, Nissan TD42 donk with Vee drive pushing a 4 to 5 blade 13" prop - according to Muzzas mate here in Perth..... I have a non turbo donk in my Nissan Safari 4X4 - still in earthquake city - Christchurch NZ, I'll be shipping here to Perth soon, so just my re-power that too with a TD42.

Now, where'd I see the job in the mines advertized?
Hear they pay superb money....  ???

Ed
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2012, 11:48:59 AM »
Yup ...brittle epoxy combined with it being put on a less than perfect surface can be a heartache for sure.  Gotta always apply epoxy to clean, dry, uncontaminated surfaces that have been roughed up a bit, and the epoxy must be mixed with the right ratio (and if measuring by hand by pouring into cups with crappy and crooked fill lines marked on it, then err towards caution and make sure you have enough resin v. hardener ...too much hardener is a worse mistake than too much resin, and being very far off on either is bad juju).

Will that TD42 have enough horsepower?  I like the idea that it's a 6-cyl diesel, but wonder if the 130-ish horsepower of the non-turbo might be a bit light?  And is the motor built with main bearings between every rod ...over-sized bearings hopefully?  "Marinized car motors" generally don't last as long as a motor truly designed for marine use from the ground up.  I don't know much about the TD42, except for what the Nissan wiki page just told me, so I can't say...

Brian
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 12:11:36 PM by Brian.Dixon »
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 07:08:17 AM »
Yea, I agree on the mix ratio's. One of my suppliers saying he once mucked up a mix, did 4 to 1 - 2 to 1 should have been mixed, well, it still went off, took a little longer, all was fine, think the brew was also from two different manufacturers too. I'm not keen to do that. You know it's the hardener that gives people "epoxyitus" it's a potent brew that stuff.
Long ago a friend building a concrete yacht in Christchurch NZ got his epoxy supplies from Shell oil in Lyttleton Harbour at half the usual price, anyone reading this can perhaps do research to see if this is still the case some place.
On another note Brian, whats the layup over those bearers? Also the 3/4" intermediate bearers?

Filleting flat out, glassing and floors over the next week

The TD42 is turbo I understand and can produce up to 200 HP, I keep thinking about all that heat under the bonnet.... I thought the Nissan 4.2 was only 92 HP, but with turbo and rechipping the computer can get up to 200 HP?
I know it doesn't pay to turbo the 4.2 as the TD42 has more oil journals etc for cooling, don't know much aboat the bigger bearings Brian, they are fairly bullet proof those donks if built correctly, Thing is, marine donks tend to be run at higher rev range for longer periods than when in vehicles, that's got to be allowed for if I am to build the marine version of the TD42....

Ed
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 07:19:09 AM by Ed Snyder »
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2012, 11:21:55 AM »
The motor:  Yes, higher rev for extended times, but also working hard the whole time... like driving up a steep hill with your gas pedal 80% of the way down just to break even, and then keeping it that way.  That's why marine motors have to have oversize tough bearings and good heat management.  Pushing a 4.2 to 200 hp?  That must involve some after market mods I'm guessing, e.g. high pressure pump etc. 

I can't remember what I said in the instructions, but I always use 10-oz for the sheathing on the stringers.  Remember that you are not trying to build a 'structural' glass treatment, e.g. that would require several more layers of glass, but are just trying to give them a tough (and stiff) outer layer.  The beams alone provide the strength and the glass is not taken into account when the calculations are done.  You could get by with 6 or even 4 ounce if you wanted to save epoxy, but I prefer the 10.

Brian

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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2012, 09:15:38 AM »
The motor:  Yes, higher rev for extended times, but also working hard the whole time... like driving up a steep hill with your gas pedal 80% of the way down just to break even, and then keeping it that way.  That's why marine motors have to have oversize tough bearings and good heat management.  Pushing a 4.2 to 200 hp?  That must involve some after market mods I'm guessing, e.g. high pressure pump etc.  Heck Brian, I dont like the sound of any of this, Looking at other donks now

I can't remember what I said in the instructions, but I always use 10-oz for the sheathing on the stringers.  Remember that you are not trying to build a 'structural' glass treatment, e.g. that would require several more layers of glass, but are just trying to give them a tough (and stiff) outer layer.  The beams alone provide the strength and the glass is not taken into account when the calculations are done.  You could get by with 6 or even 4 ounce if you wanted to save epoxy, but I prefer the 10.

Cheers, 2 X double bias on tape to hull (36 oz) then 8 oz the rest - I have in stock. ditto all other bearers etc.
I'm building in the diesel tanks Brian, that area will have 18 oz 'liner' and 3 coats resin all over. looking at using the area from main bearers chine, but perhaps not if it's going to compromise motion while at ankor, early days yet.

Brian
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