Author Topic: Ed's boat in Perth  (Read 52875 times)

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Ed Snyder

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Ed's boat in Perth
« on: April 26, 2010, 10:21:28 PM »
We've started building Prince Rupert here in Perth Australia, 2 ex-pat Kiwis, Both of us work the mines here usually constructing camps and civil works - Concrete form-work.
We have the Bottom, chine and stringers all laminated - building the shelves today, in 27 deg (cel) weather - nice.
We have built to 28 Ft and in case andded another 24 inches if she will look ok and Brians happy with it, otherwise out comes the chainsaw!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 10:32:28 PM by Ed Snyder »
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 07:41:32 AM »
Using peel ply is a clean non itchy way to ready the glassing process for the next layer, roll it over the glass past the glassed part - remove after she's all set, this removes the blush off the epoxy too. Great smooth finish ready for light filling, sanding and undercoat.
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 10:33:29 AM »

I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to.  I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either.  Maybe after the new shop is built...

Brian


Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 02:47:10 PM »
 Update:

  Ed's PhotoBucket Slide Show & Gallery

 

 He's going fast!

Brian


Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2010, 03:03:37 AM »

I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to.  I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either.  Maybe after the new shop is built...

Brian



Make sure it's been treated, not sure what with, but it may end up being part of the layup process other wise!
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2010, 03:50:31 AM »
Well, progress has been great to date, now's the time to get on with a few other priorities for a month or two.
We glued in the stem as designed - with Aussie hardwood, a bit heavy but woodn't bust if we hit anything!
The reason I liked this design is for 2 reasons, 1st is the trawler design, 2nd the build process, no framing, chine, keel or stringers usually in a boat build, simple quick and the best part clean looking interior, like the interior of a composite foam sandwich build, I think lighter build too, every one needs to remember the more weight the more fuel to move it.

Back to the stem, I like nautical looking boats. Like a curved stem.
So, this area to me needed a more nautical look. After measuring the sheer shelf from the floor, we removed the stem, that took a bit of effort, hardwood + epoxy = tough stem. I wanted a round stem, so laminated up a round one!

Using 1/4" ply cut it into wedges 3/4" to 1/8" @ 36" long to be cut to the correct length later when fitting it.
Built an MDF mould with the sheer shelf and chine angles taken off the boat as built, got a 4 gal tin to get the curve for the sheer and a 1.5" tin for the chine end. Screwed the MDF shaped ends 36" apart to an MDF base with 3 battens nailed in between, one at the centre line of the stem and the other 2 either side at about the point where the curve finishes on the ends, this is to keep the edges of the strips straight.
Covered the mould with wax paper taped on ready to place the stem on for glassing.
I used 1/4" ply as glassing 2 x 20 oz biax on both sides wood give about 3/8" thickness - same as the side panels.
The strips of ply were laid on the table and masking taped together on one face, copious tape here, as it's the strength to hold it all in shape for glassing later. When all done, this was lifted and placed on the mould, small brads kept the taped strips centred on the mould.
Lots of resin applied for the 10 minute period for soaking up in the opened up ply edges. Laid up the biax, peel ply (treated) a word of caution using peel ply, the glass needs to have plenty of resin, like when the glass gets the 2nd coat of resin, use it now, the peel ply will other wise lift the resin up to it and leave the glass with little voids in the weave under the peel ply, you will notice this when you need to sand off some areas...
Next day with excitement (always looks great this system) lifted the stem off the mould and laid up the inside.

Fitting to the hull was a trim and fit system, taking care not to trim off too much as the sides of the stem needed to fair into the ply side panels, I didn't want to have to fair up any thing. glued her up when I was happy.
When I laid up the side panels, put 1-3/4" strips of wax paper covered ply backers behind the stem to screw the side panel to when glueing up, ending up with a fair hull side. (might add here that one side I rushed thus needed to apply a little glue as fairing compound - I'm not perfect!)
Now I'll have a fair interior forward cabin to look at, nice!
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2010, 04:49:20 AM »

I haven't tried peel ply yet, but want to.  I've heard that you can use nylon taffeta from the fabric store instead and it's a lot cheaper ...but obviously I haven't tried that yet either.  Maybe after the new shop is built...

Brian



Make sure it's been treated, not sure what with, but it may end up being part of the layup process other wise!

The other issue I had with the stuff, if it has wrinkles in it, these will 'print' through, needing a sanding if one wanted a dead flat surface....

selling for $4 meter here in Oz, bought a 50M roll for $150.
Great for avoiding getting rid of epoxy blush and sanding to key the next layup (when needed)
This stuff leaves a beautiful finish, use it every where, you don't have to have it in one piece either, cut smaller sheets and dry roll it over your layup.
I use it every where even on small tight areas just to have a smooth finish and no sanding.
It can also be used on glue fillets - beats sanding, used a PVC pipe to smooth it out and short hair 1" roller to smooth out the edges of the fillets.
Caution -  (again) try not to put creases in the peel ply prior to using it, these 'print' through - having to sand these spots if you are wanting a near undercoat ready finish for those smaller hard to sand areas

I found out real quick it's not a one man job with using the stuff and laying up glass all at once.
Better to cut the peel ply into smaller sizes for what you will be glassing and put it on a roll, broom handle etc, (e.g. if glassing 9 yard long 1 yard wide, cut peel ply into 1 yd X 8" wider than the glass area - squares, the joins in the ply are not a problem later) then use a short hair roller to roll out smooth, having a helper to hold up the peel ply whilst laying it on will help greatly.
Remember to have plenty of resin on the glass, trial an error will have you getting it about right, e.g. usually one gives the cured glassing another roll on of resin to fill the weave, do it now, as the peel ply will take up resin off the surface of your layup and give voids in between the glass weave, these are easy to find if you are not sure how it all turned out later, just orbital sand a small area of the surface resin you will see the voids in the weave if they are there. (I haven't seen the peel ply take resin out of the glass fibre itself)

Google it all, there are better operators than me 'out there'
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Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2010, 04:38:55 AM »
Here's a link to a slide show of the curved stem, or really any curved surface you want, interior cabinets, corners of the coach house etc

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arthor

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 12:22:25 PM »
Looks like there is a race on. Fantastic job from all. Looking forward to seeing these float.

Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2010, 12:28:29 AM »
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Murray in N.Z.

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2012, 04:09:20 AM »
Ed & I have been P.M.ing about his boat for the past few days. I thort someone else may have similar questions or thorts so have made it a posting..

Mate.. you have cheated... you know what you are doing, a real boat fit out builder bloke not just an amature wood butcher like me!!.

You mentioned 300 HP common rail non turbo ;D .... surely you are jesting, you are looking at a hellishly big truck engine for that. With no real knowledge I wonder if something diesel, 2-3 litre, up to 120 hp will produce sparkling results unless you are going for an absolute speed demon...  But then again maybe not due to the extra few heavy metres in yours over the Tolman Jumbo. My 5.8 mtr Ramco will hit 45knots with 90hp but speed in an active sea is uncomfortable, the Pelin will hit 9 knots but comfort is painfully slow... I think 20 knots is a pretty good target for me based on my experience in all 3 harbours. (Auckland N.Z. has the Waitemata, Kaipara and Manukau Harbours.... we are spoiled for choice, look them up on Google earth.) I could be fishing anywhere comfortably in an hour or so.

Doesnt the formular for speed increase in proprtion to length at the waterline??

It seems to me from just cursory glances that the only difference between the Tolman Jumbo and Prince William is a few feet. Are there any other differences? aside from the Prince just plain looking better! 

One thing I notice about the old Pelin (26 foot launch) is the lack of fish slaughtering are... the rear deck has only about 4 foot of side for fishing over.. once there are a few blokes on board that will not be enough. My  5.8 mtr Ramco has a larger fishatorium so its something that will be missed, however the ability to brew up a cuppa and reheat a feed in the Pelin is very attractive. I also enjoy the odd moi (maori word = sleep) whilst being busy fishing. I can understand your desire to add a few extra Metres.

Are you going to copy the plans for the Glacier cabin or will you be customising it a bit?


Muzza.

Ed Snyder

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 10:53:51 AM »
ah there you are!
OK lol, 1st off, I like the whole Prince shape, gonna keep it yep, and ok, give me an engine that'll be within 476 kg designed weight and can get me 20 knots on 2800 Kg of fully laden boat......
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Murray in N.Z.

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 02:31:43 AM »
Hi there Ed.... time for me to look real smart, or at least a smartass. ;) using professor google I found this boat speed calculator... Thanks Al Gore for inventin the innernet!

http://www.go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm

Did a bit of playing... 2,800 modern kgs = 6170 antique pounds.

weight = 6170
HP = 300
Hull constant = heavy v bottom = 225
Speed = wait fir it..... TaDah....  50 knots.

Now I know nothing apart from how to ask professor google, maybe Bryan would like to give professional opinion... maybe this calculator is only for Northern Hemisphere out boards I dunno.

But when I type in 60 hp it gets 22 knots. Even more if you call the hull a fast V bottom (which it probly is).

Yes I love the cabin shape as well... It just looks right.

Murray in N.Z.

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 05:35:54 PM »
Nissan 4.2 diesel specs..

Professor Google again...
1989 Model
TD42
4.2 litre, water-cooled diesel engine.
4 cycle, 6 cylinder OHV.
Crossflow cylinder head, high camshaft.
Bore x Stroke: 96 x 96mm.
Displacement: 4169 cc.
Compression Ratio: 22.7.1.
Max. Power: 85kW @ 4000r/min (DIN).  85 KW = 114 HP.
Max. Torque: 264Nm @ 2000r/min (DIN).

1999 model
Power= td42 [nomally aspirated] 91 kw@4000 = 122 HP.
= td42t [turbocharged] 114 kw@3600 = 152HP

Maybe old Harry (old owner) is a bit confused or maybe he's had it worked a bit. Engine was supplied by Moon Engines in Avondale N.Z. ... either way it goes pretty darned good.

Not too sure of the weight but it must be findable on the innanet.

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Ed's boat in Perth
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 09:45:06 PM »
Just an FYI, Guys:

  The main differences between the Great Alaskan and the Tolman Jumbo are as follows:

 1. Deadrise:  The Jumbo has 12 degrees at the transom and 18 degrees amidships.  The Great Alaskan has 13 degrees at the transom and 14-1/4 degrees at amidships.  In other words, the GA has a hull that is much closer to a monohedron ('prismatic') and as such should run more efficiently for it's size.  I don't expect the GA to get as good mpg as the Jumbo simply because boat displacement is the number 1 cause of getting bad mileage or vice versa.  The GA weighs proportionately more for the change in length and is slightly heavier in her scantlings.  The close-to-monohedron hull is, on the other hand, more efficient ...and the 1 degree more deadrise goes the other way ...YOU figure the difference!  I made these changes to try to improve hull efficiency in spite of the boat being longer and a little heavier.  I had more length to work with than Renn did.

 2. Side flare:  The GA has a couple of degrees less flare amidships (in order to keep it trailerable in the US without special permit).  Both are similar in their rollover (righting arm versus degrees heel) characteristics, and both are similar in 'stiffness' (resistance to roll)

  3. The GA has a hull that narrows a couple of inches from admidships to the transom ... a slight change that hopefully helps prevent broaching in spite of the boat's longer length (versus swell length for a given period).

  4. The GA has a slightly finer entry forward and should slice through the chop more nicely.

  5. The GA is 8'5" wide at its widest while the Jumbo is about 8' wide, and the GA is about 6" deeper as well (more room inside the boat)

I think that's about it...

Have fun,
Brian