Author Topic: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build  (Read 34750 times)

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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #390 on: April 24, 2019, 09:12:39 AM »
Note two things ... I might be wrong on the 2 clamps on vent lines being required or not (old memory?), but fuel can and does go up and down a vent line, so at least the lower connection should have 2 clamps by good practice anyway.  Second, the ABYC guidelines (some call them standards) do indeed differ from the US Coast Guard (the included stuff above).  In particular, the ABYC and USCG differ on things such as square inches of scupper, how high scuppers must be above the waterline etc, time to drain water out of a boat, ventilation, and fuel system requirements.  This is why the plans do NOT specify these details but DO state that the builder must research local regs and comply on their own (their responsibility).  Someone has to be the tie breaker on which regs to follow, noting that while the USCG publishes Standard (must-comply), that they are for commercial manufacturers.  The ABYC publishes Guidelines, not Standards, that are optionally followed ... but God help you if you want to manufacture and sell boats that violate the ABYC guidelines!  They may as well be standards.

With homebuilt boats, it's up to you to follow what rules you choose - but the recommendation is to follow them all as closely as you can - they were written based on real-life situations where safety turned out to be lacking.  When the USCG and ABYC standards contradict, it's up to you to make a wise and considered decision on which to follow, or neither.  IF you are going to build an 'inspected' boat, e.g. you want a 30-foot Kodiak and a 6-pack captain's license so you can run a charter, then you will fail your commercial boat inspection if you don't follow the standards (you can decide on the contradictory ones and which to do - take your own chance with that).  From what I can see, inspections are more focused on safety items aboard than exact details on boat size versus scuppers, ventilation, or fuel systems - but you never know.

Brian

« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 02:40:32 PM by Brian.Dixon »
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Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #391 on: April 24, 2019, 09:15:50 AM »
Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. Im doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. Its hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!

One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist.  Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.

Brian

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #392 on: April 25, 2019, 10:04:27 AM »
Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. Im doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. Its hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!

One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist.  Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.

Brian


Very good point and well taken.  Its scary to think about a fire on a boat and makes me think even more about how important ventilation is underdeck.
 I do have plans for passive ventilation and I have also purchased a Jabsco 35760-0092 Heavy Duty Flangemount Blower, I have not decided or figured out where to install it.  I could mount it up near the cuddy bulkhead in front hatch drawing air from both side underdeck compartments and exhaust thru roof or mount at rear fishbox bulkhead drawing air from compartments below but I would still have to have air inlets from roof to the front compartments underdeck.  I have more t ime to think about that and would like to use the passive, they do make solar roof vents that can be incorporated, the jabsco may be more than I need.

It may be a pain to vent thru cabin roof I would have to box in the windshield/ side panel so I may see about venting thru cuddy roof instead.


On  20th thought, I may vent thru the anchor locker, may be the best option,

Some preliminary ideas:





« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 10:38:31 AM by Rbob »

Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #393 on: April 25, 2019, 10:34:30 AM »
I put the skins on the bottom of the front hatches, I put down 10oz glass and 2 fill coats before bonding to the framework and used the router with flush trim bit and followed with a 3/8 round bit.  Way overkill but the lids do not flex.


json

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #394 on: April 25, 2019, 12:27:54 PM »
Wow... those are some hatch lids. I might have to follow your construction method and make some when I get there. I think I would kind of prefer overbuilt so the hatch lid isn't flexing or giving underfoot. It's kind of unnerving when that happens and you aren't expecting it when it's rough and you are concentrating on something else. Good stuff about the ventilation that I had no real idea about. It makes me wonder what else I have no idea about. :)

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #395 on: April 25, 2019, 01:25:21 PM »
Yeah ... those are the best hatch lids I've seen!

Ventilation: You have aluminum tanks?  If so, no ventilation required but passive is not a bad idea.  ABYC/USCG rules on ventilation require the incoming air to come from outside the superstructure.  An inline blower and a sheer deck (rear facing) vent works well.  You can make your own too ... just a hood over a hole, but there's a baffle in front of the hole to keep water from flowing in and a top baffle to keep splashes out:

PS: If adding ventilation, I would ventilate only the fuel tank compartments, using outside air and exhausting outside.  Bilge, if sealed from fuel tank compartments, doesn't need ventilation ... just open access during long term storage to drain and dry.  Inside cuddy and house, passive ventilation for most people is fine.

PPS: The vent below is also handy on top of the pilot house roof for passing wiring from inside the house to gear on the roof if necessary.  If you make the top screw-down, then it's removable to help route the wires.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 01:29:39 PM by Brian.Dixon »
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kennneee

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #396 on: April 25, 2019, 02:01:44 PM »
Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #397 on: April 25, 2019, 04:51:43 PM »
Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken

The exhaust vent can simply blow into the cockpit area - doesn't matter where, as long as it goes somehow into the open cockpit area.  It's best if the tank area has no air passages to other under-deck areas.  That's easier than trying to vent everything everywhere.  I like to put centerline drain plugs through all under-deck bulkheads, but plug the ones that lead into and out of the fuel tank space 'coffin'.  If you've got air passages from the fuel compartment into other areas, now is a good time to open things up if you need to and to seal them, e.g. caulk where fill/vents etc go through stringers etc.  MOST fuel fumes issues are on poorly maintained boats that have developed untended leaks in bad places or have tanks that have corroded through.  If you seal nothing else, seal the under-deck bulkhead leading into the cuddy area where fumes could build.  I expect that a fumes leak into the pilot house would a) be noticed, and b) would be hard to reach a high enough concentration to ignite.

bd

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #398 on: April 29, 2019, 07:12:09 PM »
On the Hatch Lids,

Originally added 3/8" with 10oz glass between the layers and another 10oz layer on top of the 3/8" thinking it would be strong enough.

In testing I supported the ends and stood / bounced and could tell it flexed but I did not consider that the hatch lid would be captured by the support it lands on on the longer sides so testing should have been to test flex on the short side.  It may have been enough..


So if I were to do it again I may not have needed all the extra support and if I were to remake I would omit the 3/8" and just add the perimeter and cross support pieces and put the 1/4" on top with glass on the inside because of the glass being in tension.

I believe I could drive a truck on them now, could be used for loading ramps. 


Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #399 on: April 30, 2019, 05:17:13 AM »

Better to be too strong than vice versa!  Others will benefit from how well you made yours .... extra strong or not!

Brian

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #400 on: May 04, 2019, 08:49:17 PM »
Update,

Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place.  I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.

Enjoy:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 08:50:03 PM by Rbob »

Brian.Dixon

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #401 on: May 05, 2019, 07:28:43 AM »


Fun to see the house coming together :).  That little bit of clearance that you show is fine .... You probably noticed that putting in the aft house bulkhead is tough enough on it's own.... the extra clearance makes it a little easier to get the bulkhead in place.  Looks like you can fill it by letting the lower side panels of the house fit into it, but either way ... it'll get filled one way or another.


Brian

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Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #402 on: May 05, 2019, 01:24:07 PM »
Is this the correct lower side panel / aft bulkhead profile?



 

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #403 on: May 05, 2019, 02:15:18 PM »
Update,

Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place.  I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.

Enjoy:

Any luck?

Rbob

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Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
« Reply #404 on: May 05, 2019, 04:23:00 PM »
The Turkey had the luck!