Glacier Boats of Alaska - Builder's Forums

Great Alaskan and Boat Building => General Discussion about the Great Alaskan => Topic started by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 11:27:55 AM

Title: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 11:27:55 AM
I started my build in February, which some of you know.  Here are some pics, the build is slower than I want as I keep having life get in the way but that is to be expected.  I do not plan on launching this year but my goal is by next summer.
Here are some pics:  Build the jig with big wheels, 6x6 risers and jack supports in the middle for easy leveling.  (lesson from Cannon)

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 11:29:42 AM
Took the handle off of the jack's and welded nuts in place.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 11:45:45 AM
Wood working is so dusty, cant take it so I installed exhaust fan and put harbor freight dust collector right at the mixing station, pic does not show but I changed out the cheap bag on the dust collector for a
Wynn 35a filter, its good down to .5 micron.  I still wear a mask when mixing, sanding etc. z(3M Tekk P100 Particulate Filter) The fumed silica scares me.



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on April 22, 2016, 02:33:07 PM
Great progress, looking real good!


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 22, 2016, 02:34:13 PM
I can't remember if I mentioned midway support on the jig or not... I'll have to read my own construction manuals!  But was there an issue with sagging from weight on the jig?  If so, I'll update the construction manual to warn folks to use supports like you and Cannon did/are.  Those jacks look great, BTW.  I can tell that you'll do a great job on the boat ... Where will you be using the boat?  Columbia, Puget Sound ...will you go out of Westport?  Buoy 10?  Out over the Columbia bar?  Adrian Pau takes his GA out over the bar and had a lot of good things to say about the boat ..."it gets you home long after you wish you were home" kind of stuff.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 22, 2016, 10:36:31 PM
Brian,

The jig does sag, maybe close to a 1/4" which I checked with the laser level all 4 corners and the middle .  I fish every where I can, Buoy 10, Westport, LaPush, 55 miles out after tuna and crabbing/ shrimping in the Puget Sound, I am less than 10 minutes from the launch at Zittles Marina and an hour from Westport.

On the stringers, since I am raising the sole 4" I am going to just add 4" of LVL up to the aft cuddy bulkhead.  I looked at the local Home Depot and Lowes and the hem fir sucks.  The LVL only adds 84lbs. I beat myself up over this, maybe could have raised the sole with the under deck structure.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 24, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
Saturday I installed the shelf molds on the jig, meticulously re-leveled all 4 corners and the center supports and double checked all the shelf molds for accuracy, put down a piece of yellow tape over the center marks and measured from the end of the molds,checked height of the molds at the extremities and made minor adjustments shimming the wheels / adjusting leveling jacks to > 1/16".

I build the temporary framing and installed double checking those for center alignment and level.  The tip of the shelf's fit nicely but for the heck of it I set up the laser again and after getting it back on center line with the molds I checked the tip of the shelf's and the joint was off to one side almost 3/16" so a minor for/aft adjustment to the starboard shelf and it fit perfectly. 

I have a question about the stem, making it out of LVL, which way would you orient the ply's, side to side so the bow eye bolt thru the all ply's of the LVL  or for/aft ?  My gut feeling is thru all the plys with the bow eye.

Nothing today accomplished, birthday party and a touch of stomach flu has me feeling like doing nothing.

Oh and caught a blunder, the temp framing I made 4" taller and installed and it dawned on me that adding 4" to the stringers before installing will accomplish the same thing so I will pull those off which is no big deal and cut the 4" back off of the temp framing.

some photos to follow, cant figure out how to resize.

     
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 24, 2016, 09:51:04 PM
Pics:


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 25, 2016, 05:13:17 AM

I agree... I think it's better to run the eye bolt through all the plies rather than through edge grain...  Although it would work either way.  Just use a big washer if going through edge grain.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Ed Snyder on April 25, 2016, 07:34:04 AM

 cant figure out how to resize.

     

Bob if you have an editing program, go to 'resize' or 'crop'. Crop cuts the size of the pic - just eliminates everything outside of that area you want seen. Resize will just make the pic smaller an the file size smaller.
Another way is to look for resize for 'Web' posting - an old feature from those dialup days....
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 25, 2016, 03:41:33 PM
My middle name should be dumb ass.  I did not think about those plies until after I cut....  and If I would have cut to length first before putting the 45 degree cut I would have had a spare, but hey that's what epoxy is for. 

Thanks Ed.  Just downloaded a image resizer.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 25, 2016, 03:57:24 PM
I bought Alaska Yellow Cedar for the rear framing pieces, its rough sawn 2"x5" but beautiful strait grain wood.    Is it better to leave it rough for the epoxy to soak in or run it thru a planer / re-saw the sides prior to epoxy coating?   


   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on April 25, 2016, 05:19:42 PM
You are going to run through planer blades if you epoxy first. Cut, shape plane prior to coating with epoxy. The wood will soak up just as much epoxy and fairing will be easy.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 26, 2016, 05:29:31 AM
Yes ...Planer blade slice wood cells open instead of smashing them shut like what sanding does.  That said, we're splitting hairs here ...I would just size and shape the wood to what you want and coat it, no need to worry about epoxy.  It'll stick and work fine :).  Because of the above, this is why I prefer cut (skilsaw jig or planer or router) plywood scarf joints over sanded, e.g. belt sander, scarf joints.  They're stronger.  But other than that, cutting v. sanding is no big deal on the rest of the boat ...and sanded scarf joints are good enough too, but I prefer 'cut' scarf joints anyway.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Ed Snyder on April 29, 2016, 11:41:51 AM
Gougen Bros I read somewhere saying to lightly disc sand at 30 deg to the flow of grain.....
Rips open those cells, it's what I do on hardwood, don't with softer wood, as you say Brian, and i experienced the same, epoxy sticks very well to planned wood.
What makes it stick great is as Brian has in the manual, give the wood soak time in epoxy, till those dull areas look glossy with wet resin, then glass, glue etc...
Love my disc grinder, 125mm - 5" x 16 grit disc's, panel beaters supplies best price here.... Chews through @ 9000 rpm
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 11:27:45 AM
On the stem, why line it up to the tip of the shelfs only to plane it off to make side panels fit?  If I set the stem back from the tip 1/2" or so I would not have as much wood to remove from the stem.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 11:31:43 AM
Maybe I am over thinking it.  I remade the stem so the LVL beam layers are fore/aft so there is a flat spot on front mow but epoxy will fix that.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 01:54:59 PM
Flat spot in the front now, not "mow". darn eyes and fat thumbs!


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 01:59:55 PM
How do you know when the stem fits deep enough into the hull? Judging from the outside view which I dont have a pic.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 02:01:02 PM
I will post a pic from the front tonight


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 17, 2016, 03:10:56 PM
The stem is inset for the side panels so that when they are wrapped around the boat, their outer surfaces will align with the tip of the bottom panel assembly.  Lots of ways to skin the cat...  if you don't inset the stem, then you'll have to plane off the outer layers of plywood at the bow instead.

As far as how deep is deep enough for the stem fitting into the bottom panel assembly, I'd say it needs to go a few inches into the bottom panels as you've shown.  Deeper and you'd have to trim the stem to fit the bottom.  Less deep and you have a weaker tie between the bottom and side panels at the bow.  'About right' is about right... And BTW, it's not a bad idea to blend the end of the stem smoothly into the bottom panel assembly by filling with epoxy.  Remember that for bow stem and transom corners, that I recommend the use of milled glass fiber in your epoxy mixture for increased strength.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 04:52:03 PM
It is the inset of the stem I am questioning (not how deep into the bottom panel).

1.  Where the tip of the stem and tip of the shelves meet, you have to plane the leading edge, then the side of the stem and first 6" of shelves.   What I anticipate is planing back a fair amount to get the shelves (and stem) beveled  for good side panel fit.  Why not leave the tip of the shelves proud by 1/2" as it seems less planing would be required.

2. Inset the stem into the bottom panel, I have removed quite a bit of wood on the stem to inset the stem but when eye balling the side panel fit to the stem I not sure what I am aiming for.  I will take a couple pics when I get home and post. 

I have searched for some pics of the stem here and the other sight but no closeup of the fitted stem.

Progress has been slow, side tracked again, go shrimping, lets go for ling cod and halibut, I will get he stem fitted then onto the transom then sides. Oh no razor clamming is open again...
Its tough sometimes making sacrifices when the weather is nice and fishing is good, not too much of a concern the rest of the year except when hunting time comes.  haha.

Oh ya the working for a living thing!

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 17, 2016, 10:04:53 PM
It still looks like I should inset the stem into the bottom panels more and my chines might be a little proud in the front so I may have to trim those a bit.

I cannot figure out how to post pics in order wit comments between. 

The first pic is of my chines, do you think I should cut them back a bit?
 
Second pic shows a level on the side of the bow stem, looks like lots to trim which is why I think I should pull the stem back a bit.

Third and fourth pic shows a scrap piece of 3/8" plywood sitting flush on the stem side.

The fifth pic I am holding the scrap piece out a bit which is the fit I think I should be shooting for.

My fillet on the inside of the bow is big which is probably why I am trimming so much off of the stem.

Any advice for me?

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on May 18, 2016, 09:08:13 AM
I think that perhaps you are over thinking this. I (if I recall correctly, I am getting older 😜, brought mine to a point. If you will recall, the manual said to outline the cut in felt pen and then leave it wild or full width. When it came time to trim it, I used a skill saw because you get a more fair curve than with a jig saw. You will have to notch your bow stem until you can get a piece of scrap or a four foot level to plane out with the chines, shelves and bow stem. Peanut butter will be your friend in the end, the main purpose of the bow stem is to hold the sides in place while gluing, so it really needs to plane out with all of the other parts & pieces.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 18, 2016, 09:52:54 AM
Rbob,

Not sure if this will help or not but here are a few shots of my bow stem during preliminary fitup, before it is epoxied.  The stem fit down into the fairbody 20".

I want a slight lip of chine at the prow and don't intend on installing a keel strake.

In your case, I think you can sand it down fair once you have the sides on as Brian instructs in the manual  You need not worry about sanding through the bottom panels a little which is the point of the beefy bow stem and big fillet in that area.  A mini grinder would probably work nice for you in that endeavor.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 18, 2016, 09:55:23 AM
more pics...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 18, 2016, 09:56:43 AM
last pic
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 18, 2016, 03:16:12 PM
Those pictures are worth a thousand words! Especially Stem4! Thanks BobC !

Cannon, trimming the chines deal, mine was a kit from Westcoat Boatworks and the chines were trimmed already.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on May 18, 2016, 08:22:24 PM
BobC, that is like a furniture joint! Very pretty, too bad it gets covered up!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 19, 2016, 09:02:08 AM
I know... I think that's the most impressive fitting of a stem to the boat that I've seen!  That's why I believe in using thick paint ...it hides a thousand sins and nobody can see the handiwork underneath  ::) :o ;D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 19, 2016, 10:39:01 AM
 I am afraid to post a pic of the joint I did, at least a 1/4" gap everywhere ! Took me awhile, that big fillet I did on the V caused me lots of trial fit and fits.

BobC how did you do it?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 19, 2016, 01:50:38 PM
Aww, shucks guys.  I probably have 2-3x more hours in it than yours and it won't work any different than your 1/4" gap fitting.  Looks aren't everything.  You'll all be fishing while I'm still planning and sanding and as Cannon said it all gets covered up.  :( 

I'm guessing by the time I get to doing the cabin,  and closer to launching, there will be a lot more epoxy in the joints... ;D I have been blessed to have some nice material to work with as well which always helps. 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 20, 2016, 06:53:36 AM
Here's that joint with big fillet.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on May 20, 2016, 06:55:01 AM
and then another with first layer of glass. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: davidnolan on May 20, 2016, 08:16:18 AM
Im late to this party and I didn't build a GA.   This is a common area of issue.   I built and had almost the same picture as yours with the plywood so far off the stem.     I didn't want to do all that work insetting the stem into the bow and I knew this ahead of time.   When the time came, I simply got out my can of PL construction adhesive, added a 1/2 inch piece of plywood glued to the stem and screwed in where they would not get in the way.   A couple hours later I planed the plywood to get the perfect fit.   Its not milled glass fiber but Im really not concerned that the plywood will ever come apart from the stem.   It was very simple and quick.  My other issue was that My side panels were cut for a 26 foot boat and then I stretched to 27 ft so I had to add a piece later on that wasn't scarfed, just glassed in.

In the end the planer and then 50 grit paper cleaned it all up perfectly nice for my workboat skiff.

I know of several east coast boat builders doing the GA.  I think it will make a perfect offshore canyon fisher in nice to moderate conditions where you don't have to spend 900 in fuel like my last trip on a 31 contender with twin 250 HPS.      I fished Tuesday in the canyon and we went 120 miles out and back on 40 gallons.   

heres some pics of what I did just for another angle on this.   

more difficult for me was bending the 3/8 ply and getting good contact.   I used boards and straps to apply pressure where ordinary screws wouldn't hold it.   I also drilled LOTS of holes to make sure I got squeeze out and was sure I had full contact.     
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 20, 2016, 09:27:36 AM
That's another option I did not think about, I may end up going that way.  My fillet on the inside is huge causing me to remove much of the stem to get a good fit. 

Thanks!

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 23, 2016, 04:03:20 PM
Well I got a better fit after removing the hump in the fillet. Spent a lot of time fitting the other stem I made but it looks much better:  Then I got side tracked shrimping then a return trip to search for lost shrimp pot. I will be fishing 3 days starting Thusrday.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 07, 2016, 12:32:26 PM
I have a question on the transom, the manual says:
"Fiberglass the forward and top faces (but not the lower and back faces) of
the LVL pieces with 10- to 12-ounce biaxial fiberglass, optionally glassing
with 10-ounce woven fiberglass wet-on-wet to avoid having to fair the
biaxial after curing.

Is this done before laminating the lvl to the plywood transom?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 07, 2016, 02:28:50 PM
I have a question on the transom, the manual says:
"Fiberglass the forward and top faces (but not the lower and back faces) of
the LVL pieces with 10- to 12-ounce biaxial fiberglass, optionally glassing
with 10-ounce woven fiberglass wet-on-wet to avoid having to fair the
biaxial after curing.

Is this done before laminating the lvl to the plywood transom?

To put this in context, the quote above refers to the LVL motor board on the transom, not the LVL stringers....

The instructions refer to glassing the LVL motor boards ('beams' in the drawing) prior to gluing them onto the transom.  You will glass over the motor cut-out later, e.g. glass will overlap onto the aft face of the transom and onto the f'w'd face of the motor board.

Somewhat obviously, you could actually glass these in any order, and could even glass over the top of the motor cut-out when you glass the motor boards if you want extra glass there... not necessary though.  Another option is to put the biax on the motor boards after they've been glued onto the transom and cured, nails/screws removed as necessary.  This would allow you to fillet any gaps between the upper and lower motor boards and to transition any difference in height (with thickened epoxy) between the lower doublers and the motor boards ...then glass over the hole thing smoothly, and add 10-oz wet-on-wet and almost totally avoid fairing on the transom.  The main thing is to a) have that biax on the motor boards, and b) have the minimum number of ounces on the transom, inside and out.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 07, 2016, 03:02:41 PM
I will glass afterwards then, probably get wider biaxial cloth so I can cover the LVL motor mount boards with 1 piece.

Progress has been slow lately but I am not in a race so I will keep on keeping on.

Thanks again Brian!

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 08, 2016, 09:34:41 AM
I will glass afterwards then, probably get wider biaxial cloth so I can cover the LVL motor mount boards with 1 piece.

Progress has been slow lately but I am not in a race so I will keep on keeping on.

Thanks again Brian!

That'll work fine...

Just try to consistently make a little progress each day or week, and it WILL get done...

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 08, 2016, 10:19:04 AM
Installed the stem and laminated the transom last night, the transom took a lot more epoxy than I anticipated which was 3 batches but got it done.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 08, 2016, 02:26:24 PM
That transom's heavy, isn't it?!  :o ;D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 08, 2016, 07:44:20 PM
The transom is hernia heavy, good thing I didn't get one I would send Brian the bill😝
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 08, 2016, 08:37:15 PM
I had help turning over the transom!  Tonight I put in the doubler's on the transom and put some biax on the stem/shelf fillet, I was going to put some glass over the biax but ran out of epoxy and decided good enough.

Up next will be mounting the transom and then building and pre-glassing the side panels before installing them.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 09, 2016, 09:09:02 AM
...I should look up the transom in the CG spreadsheet for the GA and then post how much it weighs ...it's no piker though.  The stringers are heavy, as is the bottom panel assembly, and of course turning the boat over.  Everything else is reasonably light and easier to handle...  Beer and pizza and friends solves much...

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 11, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
When do I drill transom for drain plug, now or after transom install?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 11, 2016, 02:49:36 PM
When do I drill transom for drain plug, now or after transom install?

I like to drill it after the boat is upright, before the decks go in.... and do it from inside the boat.  Easy to make close to hull that way, for better drainage... And I think I mention in the manual, that I like to build a fiberglass tube that has an inside diameter (15/16"?) sized for a standard boat drain plug, then I drill an oversize hole through the transom and epoxy the drain tube into place (flush with the inside, cut flush after curing on the outside).  And I like to give the drain plug a slight downward angle to a) help drain the boat, and b) provides a little extra room on the inside for you to tighten the drain plug (which goes from inside towards the outside ...unless you want to lose it while underway ...keep spares onboard).

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 11, 2016, 07:14:53 PM
Sounds great and I waz in a hurry so I drilled it, I will make a tube like you mentioned with wax paper and broom handle and epoxy that in a oversized hole I made.

Thanks Brian !
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 12, 2016, 09:18:57 AM
Sounds great and I waz in a hurry so I drilled it, I will make a tube like you mentioned with wax paper and broom handle and epoxy that in a oversized hole I made.

Thanks Brian !

Everything on the boat is something that can be fixed or done over again ...I cut a cabin door out too large one time, and patched in a specially-fit piece of plywood to narrow the door back down ...and I've filled and re-drilled lots of things.  No problem.  When the paint was on the boat, nobody could tell what I did and only friends knew... haha...

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on June 21, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
Just epoxied the transom to the bottom tonite.  The transom is no joke.  I am glad I have manhandled it for the last time.  I'm glad it fit well.  Mine was built using Fir.  I imagine Meranti would be beyond the pale for one man assembly without some real innovation. :D

It's funny, I was just thinking about when to do the drain plug.  I think I am going to wait as well so as brian says, I can get it as close to the bottom of the bilge as possible.

That stem connection looks real nice Rbob.   Looks like you are making good use of LVL material.  She's gonna be a stout craft when you are done. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 22, 2016, 06:06:58 AM

Looking good!  No more tossing that transom around... heh heh...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 22, 2016, 07:57:32 AM
I got my transom fitted last night, was a little more involved as I added 4" to the stringers which I cut the raised section on a 14 degree angle to match up to the inside of the transom.  I had to grind back about 6" of fillet on the on the hull center seam to mount the transom which sucked.

Now I have to raise up the bottom and sand upside down where the stringers will glue to the bottom, and sides of the stringers where the fillet will go.  It would have been a lot easier while the hull was upright and the stringers were still on the bench. I have to start thinking more about hindsight.

The transom fit great with only a gap at the top of the stringers. I will post some pics in a bit.


BobC, Looks like we are real close on our builds and I enjoy watching your progress.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 22, 2016, 03:47:40 PM
Maybe by accident but I did not need braces to set/hold the transom angle, since I had cut the 4" raised portion of the stringers at 14 degrees to fit against the inside of the transom and not thru the transom, the transom the angle is adjusted by bumping the stringers forward or aft-ward.  I used a digital angle gauge, zero it on the vertical temp framing and set each side to 14 exactly. I double checked this by zero the gauge on the building jig and then checking transom and 76 degrees confirms a perfect angle. I meticulously leveled the building jig with a laser also.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 22, 2016, 04:06:14 PM
Brian,

I am doing a transom modification, it will be an extended transom.  I used the transom cutout that I had and raised the upper doubler to match the 4" raised sides, just had to add a backing to that to screw the shelves into.  Once the boat is flipped and the rear bulkheads for the fish box is built I can do a final cut on the transom.  I will add a small door to access the extended transom.

I know it may not be as seaworthy but I like it:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 22, 2016, 06:54:56 PM
That'll work fine.  Keep in mind that the boat tapers from amidships aft, so the aft transom will be a little narrower than the primary transom.  Not much, but something you may want to eyeball with a couple of battens taped on the hull sides etc.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 22, 2016, 11:19:36 PM
That is what I originally going to do, but my shop is just too short. Dang the luck!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 23, 2016, 07:58:29 AM
That is what I originally going to do, but my shop is just too short. Dang the luck!

I'm designing in something similar on the 16' skiff that I'm working on...and will have a Euro style transom.  I'll build one for myself and put an outboard jet on it ...

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on June 23, 2016, 09:40:20 AM
Spent ast night double checking all measurements. The stringers are not perfectly strait so I added 32" spreaders between the stringers and then measured to the outer chines where I put the spreaders. It was off S much as 1/2" so I added 2x4's to the chines of equal length to get the stringers perfectly in line. I am glad I spent the time so raising the hull to drill, sand and epoxy will be a no brainer, lower it back down in the saddles I made and everything will be in alignment. I also braced the stem so it wont move after making sre it was plumb.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/1874982c389af55577bb90b9a488db99.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/1874982c389af55577bb90b9a488db99.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/aa309431ae338943eeff20c63d597653.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/fcd846231417e9c12a1357475705d640.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/ede923ca9597955bfbc13ea41bde0979.jpg)


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 23, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
I will be cutting off the stringers tonight, but what/when is the best way to cut the bottom flush to the transom? 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 23, 2016, 11:25:29 AM
I will be cutting off the stringers tonight, but what/when is the best way to cut the bottom flush to the transom?

It takes a few minutes, but I like to go ahead and glue the transom in place, then use a japanese pull saw (held tight against the outer face of the transom) and cut from one side to the other - This makes the end of the bottom panel assembly match the angle of the transom.  I figure this is faster than filling/fixing goofs from jig saws and sanders later...

Brian


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 23, 2016, 01:59:45 PM
That is what I will do.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 23, 2016, 10:18:32 PM
I used a skil saw to make the major cuts and finished them off with the pull saw. Then I ran a router around the perimeter with a 3/4 radius. Turned out great!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 24, 2016, 07:49:23 AM
Cannon,

Do you have a launch date or expected date?  You must be really close.

Still sizing up trailers, could you get me the bow eye to transom measurement when your not building furniture ot trying to finish that man last minute details?

No hurry for me.     
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 25, 2016, 05:33:31 PM
Bob,
Not sure I understand your question???
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 25, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
From this pic it would be measurement "B" or A  depending on where the winch stand/roller is.

Just trying to look ahead, all the 2 axle trailers I see are short.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 26, 2016, 11:24:55 AM
Bob,
That was a concern right up to the day I put the boat on the trailer! Believe me when I say unknown's bug the heck out of me and that was a doozie. I will make an attempt to get you the info you need later today.
I will tell you that the more important measurement is where the dead rise of the bow is in relation to the cross brace (c) in the front of the trailer. Too close and the bouce of the boat on the trailer will bang the keel into the cross bar. To my way of thinking, that is more important than the overall length.
The winch post can be adjusted for height and for setback. I used pressure treated 4x6 for the bunks which added to the complexity of height and length. I adjusted both after the boat was on the trailer. The reason I mentioned the cross piece is because I initially moved the winch stand too far forward. I had wanted to minimize the amount the boat hung off the stern, but by doing so I pulled the hull too far forward. A simple fix; I just need to pull the boat to the rear of the trailer but initially it wasn't on my radar.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/30875c8ad3e3543b4e5c214e32ad0bd2.jpg)
I just need to move the hull back six inches. I believe you can see the paint line where the winch post was originally located.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/4e3152e2596f6bf0555baa933f3f9c03.jpg)
I had originally planned on cutting the ends off depending on how far forward the keel sat in relation to the winch stand. Turned out that they were the ideal length.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/747f154f790e66ecad3fecf7f25d3b7c.jpg)
I had initially wanted the transom as close to the rear of the trailer as possible because the bunks cantilever about two feet past the cross member.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on June 26, 2016, 09:15:01 PM
I coated the gluing services yesterday morning when I got up this morning and started mixing batches of epoxy glue the bottom down.
I want to glue the transom in first not just Tackitt I figured what the heck just do it right now. I bought some pastry bags and mannose things are slick you can stick it right in between the stringer and the transom and just pump it and don't start coming out the backside.

It took 4 1/2 batches and using the pasty bags made it easy. Jump on top and screwed it down. Then do the clean up.

I went ahead and filled in me transom drain,  I will re drill once it is flipped.

It went well and I am so happy that part is done.

Pics below in no particular orded:












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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 27, 2016, 05:41:42 AM

Nice work!  Looks like it came together very well!  You'll be flipping it soon!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 27, 2016, 02:52:54 PM
Thats the last time I will use Siri! 

"Mannose" means: man those.

You only have to squeeze the pastry bag until the epoxy oozes out not pump it!

It was late and I was tired, not from the boat which was done by noon but limbing trees with chainsaw until 8:00 last night, thats my excuse!


Cannon,

I that boat looks big even on a 3 axle trailer!





Title: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 28, 2016, 08:46:24 AM
Bob,
It is all about perspective:)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/23ea9581ea03fc414a3055f2d157b46b.jpg)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 28, 2016, 11:14:45 AM
I still am amazed how big they are, sure hope it fits in my new shop.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 28, 2016, 11:23:12 AM
Big == GOOD!

That's one mean fishin' machine!  Can't wait to someday see it in person...

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 28, 2016, 06:46:11 PM
It won't fit in this shop without the radar, that is why I went ahead and mounted the radar so high.  It is still under 14' though...


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on June 28, 2016, 09:59:06 PM
Is this a lot of squeeze out:
1 quart, seems like a lot.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 28, 2016, 10:36:32 PM
Seems to me like way overkill, seldom had more than a Dixie cup...


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on June 29, 2016, 05:58:24 AM
Is this a lot of squeeze out:
1 quart, seems like a lot.


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Yep, lots of squeeze out.  Reminds me of the movie National Lampoons Xmas vacation.  "Lots of sap" scene.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJxJakcwBOM

LOL.  Lots of parallels there including his hands sticking to the book pages that night. I can relate.  I'm sitting here trying to get some epoxy off my glasses as I write this.  Epoxy seems to make its way into the darnedest places. 

I believe Renn had the best answer to the problem.  Have plenty of other parts and pieces lined up that need some epoxy so you can use the leftover squeeze out, like filling screw holes etc. so it doesn't all go to waste.


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 29, 2016, 07:39:33 PM
My favorite scene was the dumping of the holding tank...


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on July 08, 2016, 10:23:42 AM
From this pic it would be measurement "B" or A  depending on where the winch stand/roller is.

Just trying to look ahead, all the 2 axle trailers I see are short.
The measurement from the rear of the bunks to the cross member is 23' 8"
The measurement from the rear of the bunks to the bumper wheel of the winch is 25, 10". That is with the boat moved back four inches and the winch moved back as well to give me clearance between the cross member and the keel.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, I suffer from CRS...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 08, 2016, 11:38:11 AM
Thanks Cannon, and I appreciate you taking the time to do it when you should be spending your time finishing your boat!

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 08, 2016, 11:41:18 AM
I suffer from CRS too!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on July 08, 2016, 09:26:09 PM
I thought about it, in between phone calls I ran out and measured. Took all of five minutes. To be quite honest, it was one of those things that bugged me right up till I loaded the boat on the trailer. I wish I had asked way back then.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on August 08, 2016, 10:41:30 AM
Not much progress lately but I did get the front second layer bow on yesterday, just one side. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/6b55c75e17eed9d1bbdbb40cd30bf155.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/89c2654c39165e9e22b4533afdcd7658.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/da6639da7c09c39a1c17ce5325c544bb.jpg)

The gap between the outer panel and chine was a little wider than I wanted at the front but I will fill it in with epoxy. I had clamped a block at mid panel to align to, I will pay more attention on the other side.

At the rate I am going I will be lucky to flip it in September. I am not in  rush yet and if it takes more than a year so be it.





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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 08, 2016, 02:29:00 PM
Hey ...It's better to have a gap to fill than a big piece of wood that has LOTSA screws that has to be taken off and trimmed, or trimmed while on the boat.  Filling gaps is a way of life for s-n-g boat builders and it's better to have a gap than a wood-on-wood hard spot.  The fish will never notice... :D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on August 13, 2016, 06:49:17 PM
They will on my boat, just after coming over the side, getting their throat cut and ending upside down in the bleed bucket...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 14, 2016, 12:07:38 PM
They will on my boat, just after coming over the side, getting their throat cut and ending upside down in the bleed bucket...

I landed a 44# Chinook in Puget Sound once, fishing out of a friend's boat.  He was VERY particular about his boat, wanting every drop of fish blood accounted for and cleaned up... NO bleeding fish into the drywell or on the deck, ALWAYS bleed the fish into a 5-gal bucket and then into the cooler, and wash out that bucket pronto.  Well, that 44-pounder was way too long for that bucket, and right after I sliced the gills on one side (head down in the bucket), it gave one last kick and I lost my grip ...that darn fish flopped all over the deck, squirting blood everywhere... boy was he pissed.  And to put the icing on the cake, we'd spent about 12 hours fishing, zero hook-ups, and were just turning back when I caught that fish (104' down on a #603 Tomic) ...he didn't catch diddly and his boat was a raving mess, and his 7 year old kid that was with us kept repeating all of the above ..."Hey Dad?  You didn't catch any fish!".  I just kept quiet all the way back ..took my fish home and minded my own business...  ;D

bd

PS: Oh yeah ...he had also gouged the gelcoat on his boat that  morning because we had put in at Freshwater Bay, launching off the beach, and his boat snagged a submerged rock on the way out...  :-\   All in all, a great day for all!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on August 14, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
I learned a long time ago, fishing is hard on a boat. The first scratch is going to be one of many! Oh and I am real pleased with the Duralux paint. It hardened up and has proven to be quite durable!


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 14, 2016, 08:30:23 PM
Well, its going slow but I did catch a lot of prawns yesterday!  I  got the second layer on the other side and I did not have a big of gap at the chine but had to add a little at the keel side, and filled the gap at the chine both sides. 

So when flattening out the keel 3/4"  for the bottom strake (front part) I imagine gradually tapering it to where it will the strake will sit on top of the keel the rest of the way back? questioning myself...
 
 Did a little today after granddaughters soccer practice, The scarfs that were stepped (Kit) sucked, every one them as the staggered cut would not allow the 2 panels to sit flush.  I ended up stacking all 8 side pieces and re-scarfing with a power planer and I wish I would have done it on the previous scarfs which I tried to hand plane each step to get it to fit..

Those screw holes I have to fill on the bow's second layer, should I drill them out (from outside) then fill? or just fill?

I read that some people scarf a whole stack which I may want to try. Suggestions on that?

I have one one forward panel glued tonight, I can put plastic down and do the next one on top of that and if I had more room I could lay out all 6 pieces I have left and pre-coat the scarfs then start laying them up with glue, plastic stack more on top etc.  Maybe too much to try all at once.

Maybe just one at a time, remove plastic and scrape it flush and go ahead and put the cloth/epoxy on before moving on to next piece.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on August 15, 2016, 08:04:30 AM
It's funny, but scarfing is one of the big stumbling blocks for first time builders. I obsessed over it right up to the day I did it. In reality it is a simple process and easily accomplished. The only thing I would stress is that you use a sheet of 3/4 ply for a base. It would be even better with a couple of 2x4's screwed in flat to keep the base from flexing down. Other than that, it goes quickly.  I used a straight edge both ways to be sure I didn't have humps or dips.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 15, 2016, 12:31:16 PM
Those screw holes ....First, make the wood surface smooth and free of loose stuff, e.g. take the screws back out after the 2 layers are cured together, then remove any wood splinters, glass, etc.  Then I sweep, then shopvac each screw hole.  I fill the holes with epoxy that's thickened with fairing compound (phenolic microballons or glass microballoons plus silica).  I fill the holes to the point that there is a 'bump' of epoxy above flush.  Trying to scrape off excess creates a dent over the screw hole that has to be filled again later.  If you leave the fill epoxy bumped up above the surface, then you can scrape it flush with a carbide scraper after it's cured.  I find that this method results in a smoother, nicer, surface.  It's how I fill all screw holes...

You'll want to fill on the inside and outside.  The inside of the hull is already glassed at this point, and that's fine.  Just fill, cure, scrape as described and put a finish coat or two of epoxy over the filled holes and call it good.  On the outside, it'll all get glassed over when you glass the bottom assembly.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 15, 2016, 12:41:33 PM
That will be easy.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on August 18, 2016, 05:44:52 PM
Found a soft spot on the plywood when I was blowing out the holes and putting leftover resin on from the scarf.  Glad I found it



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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on August 18, 2016, 05:45:59 PM
I made a slice with the utility knife and was just going to put the resin through the crack but I ended up drilling holes all over to make sure I got all the separation filled


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 19, 2016, 07:10:01 AM
Yup... lots of today's plywood has voids in it.  They aren't always detected when the grading is going on at the mill.  Just fill 'er up... and keep going!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: BobC on August 22, 2016, 07:20:04 AM
Looking good Rob.  Slow but steady wins the race...  I had that same gap at the chine on my second bow layer.  I think it is required ;)...  No problems filled with thickened Epoxy and rolled on.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on August 22, 2016, 10:05:00 AM
Got the rear side members installed, faired the bowstem and 10' or so of the shelves and some of the angled blocks installed.



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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 23, 2016, 05:27:57 AM
That's a good idea, supporting the stringers in front of the transom with temporary framing ...takes a load off the transom and the ends of the shelves.

Looking great!  You'll have it upright before you know it!

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on August 25, 2016, 04:26:30 PM
Thanks to you, just following instructions for the most part.
Just need to temp mount the sides, mark and cut.

Would you glass the inner side panels before trimming to fit?

I guess I should go fishing this weekend and think about it.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 29, 2016, 08:22:18 PM
Brian,

On the use of nylon taffeta in place of Peel-Ply I can find polyester taffeta on ebay for $1 a yard. Does it matter? I also see stretch type so more thoughts to ponder for me. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 29, 2016, 08:49:09 PM

1. Taffeta ...I'm betting you can use either nylon or polyester, but I'd test the polyester first.  I know the nylon works.  I would avoid stretchy material.

2. Glassing before installing side panels?  You can always glass the interior face of a concave surface first ...but I would likely stop the glass just short of the region that will be planed (etc) down for the  scarf joint, then glass over the scarf joint after it's cured and faired.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 12, 2016, 02:03:52 PM
I got 1 side installed and the other side cut out and glassed, almost I ran out of epoxy was about 3 feet to go on the aft panel. 

Ran out of aeromarine so i trimmed the cloth and will mix up Ebond epoxy tonight



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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 12, 2016, 02:07:46 PM
I did not think about this until now but I probably could've just mixed up the E Bond and spread it right into the aeromarine and been done with it


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 12, 2016, 02:22:42 PM
Installing the sides was easy for me. I added cantilever supports for both sides. The support pieces were just pieces of plywood that I screwed into the building Jig and clamp to the shelves with the one and a half inch spacer between the support and the shelf.
At the bow area I slid an 8 foot 2 x 4 under the shelves and clamp to the shelves with the spacer block between the shelves and 2x4.
When I trimmed The bottom portion of the sides I left the tabs where they sit on the support then when I went to epoxy the side on I just simply set them on the supports and screwed the sides on.
Also for supprt at the bow area I cut 4x4's to fit under shelves.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 12, 2016, 02:24:01 PM
Side install support


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 13, 2016, 08:35:05 AM
Those supports are a great idea!  When siding houses and what not, we do similar things... not sure why I didn't think of that for the boat!

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 14, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
Here's a close-up of the tabs I left on the side panels with the witness marks
I got the right side on after work last night finished up about 1130 last night


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 14, 2016, 12:58:29 PM
Looks great!  And BIG...  ;D

Thanks for sharing your side-hanging techniques.  I'm going to be updating the manual soon and will likely include this idea in there to make the (cumbersome) side-hanging process easier....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 14, 2016, 04:45:22 PM
When I did the 1st aft side I set it on the supports and did the best I could for marking the inside chine but the 2x4's mounted on top of the hull do not let the side panel sit flush at the top edge and gave me a little grief after cutting it out, I had to shim the panel up about 1/2" to get a good fit.


I hope that made sense!

When I hung the second aft panel on other side I decided to hang the side panel from a screw mounted at the top of the panel at mid point into a brace and lined up the top of the panel with the chine, temporarily screwed the aft panel on then marked inside for cut.  After marking and cutting I reinstalled the cantilever supports for the aft panel, the cut was perfect. Since this aft panel was marked and trimmed without the supports there was no tab to hold it at the perfect height like the forward panel.  I could have reinstalled the aft panel, installed supports and shimmed for perfect fit but I did not, but was still very easy.  I set the panel on the supports with the scarf joint lined up where I wanted it  (after applying epoxy) and put the first screw in the top of the transom after lining up perfectly with rear chine ( just lifted up the rear) then lifted up the panel at the front scarf to line up with chine seam and put another screw in.  On the supports the panel is stable, it sits out about 3" from the epoxy and rests against the chine and lifting it 3/4" is easy.

With 1-1/2" spacer under the cantilever support and the bottom panel trimmed + 3/4"  I could have just set a scrap piece of 3/4" on the support and been fine that way.  Those little scrap pieces of 1/2" I screwed to the support worked well, some out 6" and some close as needed for good fit and put some witness marks on made an easy install.

Tired and rambling on!   

I applaud you and those who can write so someone else can understand / make sense of the worlds.  I had to re-read/change my rambling probably 10 times and still.... question what the hell am I saying, haha.





Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 14, 2016, 06:41:20 PM
Yeah ...those 2x4s can get in the way if too close to the outer edge of the chine.  Not sure what to do about that ...except maybe rough cut first so there is no tall upper plywood edge to conflict with the 2x4?  Otherwise, you would have to lower the lower supports that carry the side panels ... or screw blocks along the top edge of the ply to 'hang' on the edge of the chine while marking.  Dunno ...lots of ways to skin the cat.  BUT it's very important to give those chines a straight run aft, so there's not much you can do about getting those 2x4s out of the way....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 15, 2016, 11:20:53 AM
My scarf did not turn out great on this side, I reused the plywood to clamp the scarf together (same screw holes) and they did not tighten down enough, I should have put a few more screws to tighten it up but....  late and tired thinking it would be fine.

Oh well, just a little more fairing on that side.  By the time I get done I will be an expert.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 15, 2016, 04:01:49 PM
My scarf did not turn out great on this side, I reused the plywood to clamp the scarf together (same screw holes) and they did not tighten down enough, I should have put a few more screws to tighten it up but....  late and tired thinking it would be fine.

Oh well, just a little more fairing on that side.  By the time I get done I will be an expert.

Scrape down the high spots before fairing it in, and use a longboard to sand diagonally up, diagonally down, horizontally, and vertically ...fill, repeat.  Doesn't take long and you won't miss the flat spots and uglies.  Don't trust the exterior glassing to hide all your sins... do the fairing before glassing if you accidentally produced a "decorative" scarf :)

Brian

Title: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 17, 2016, 10:36:08 PM
You are going to like/love your GA! After today, I am a total believer!!! The GA can handle rough water with ease. In most boats, the offshore conditions would have scared me spittless. Never once felt we were in danger and it was a very mean ocean!


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 19, 2016, 10:20:34 AM
I filled the chine seam and the bow seam,  still need to fillet and glass the inner shelf.  It sucks with limited time to work on it, had to sand the inner shelf and side again since I did not get back on it soon enough that adds a lot of extra work...

Going to fillet and glass the inner shelf tonight then on to glassing the exterior seams which should I plan on doing it wet on wet this coming weekend. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 19, 2016, 11:37:11 AM
You are going to like/love your GA! After today, I am a total believer!!! The GA can handle rough water with ease. In most boats, the offshore conditions would have scared me spittless. Never once felt we were in danger and it was a very mean ocean!


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Good to hear, hopefully it calms down so you can get back out!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 20, 2016, 07:55:25 AM
Even during 'good weather', getting out in Oregon is surprisingly challenging... bar closed more than you'd expect.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 20, 2016, 09:50:12 AM
I have a commercial license, but more than not, I'd rather sit in port than wish I hadn't gone across the bar when its restricted.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 20, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Just so there is no confusion, I do have a commercial fishing license, not a six pack. I have a hard time babysitting people so I went this route. I love to fish, and once I filled my freezer and canned enough for the winter, I still like to go! I have a short list of customers who subsidize my fishing habit which helps with fuel, insurance and such. The reason I'm stating this outright is because on the other board, a certain obnoxious person essentially called me a liar.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 20, 2016, 03:01:50 PM
What an A-hole!

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 21, 2016, 04:42:52 PM
Question on the aux spray rail,

"The auxiliary spray rails are installed along the forward chine so that they
effectively widen the chine flat in this region."

If the chines are rounded over, what do I line the aux spray rails to? Flush with the bottom of chine and back-fill the radius or drop them down a bit (away from waterline)  ?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 22, 2016, 08:07:53 AM
Align with upper side of the chine radius, otherwise you'd have fill work to do ...and the purpose is to knock down spray.  It'll do that fine when installed as shown below:

(http://glacierboats.com/images/chine.jpg)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 22, 2016, 08:26:45 AM
I was concerned about this when I got to this point. I did just as Brian has illustrated and they work great.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 22, 2016, 09:39:48 AM
That picture is worth a thousand bucks!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 22, 2016, 12:41:51 PM
That picture is worth a thousand bucks!

 ;D

I like how you can use a square in cross-section strip of wood, no fancy bevels or fitting, and you get a spray rail that angles downward just as you want... It doesn't just deflect spray, it throws it downward.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 23, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
I applied the fillet and 4" 9oz glass to the inner shelf/side joint last night, it was surprisingly easy and went without a hitch.  I pre-wet the joint with ebond 1285/1285 with 15 seconds in the microwave to hurry it up a bit, just brushed it on with a chip brush that I trimmed shorter and just brushed maybe 1" on both sides of the joint, sides and shelf were already glassed, sanded and cleaned.

  I used disposable pasty bags (cheap and way better than a ziploc bag) for the fillet mixture and only mixed 2 batch's. Applied a full length bead and follow up with plastic spoon and scraped off the waste which was not much, filled screw holes with the leftover.  I love those pastry bags!

After dinner I went back at it. Not sure how everyone else applied this but I used the glassing box to pre-wet the glass and cut 6 - 5' lengths of glass and pre-wet 2 stacks of 3 glass with ebond 1285/1289 let it soak  then rolled it with a bubble roller and squeegeed off excess, then I slid the glassing box under the boat and put the glass on with nitrile gloves to smooth it into the fillet which was fairly firm still.  then one more smaller batch of epoxy and 4.5 5' pieces.

The ebond 1289 gave me lots of open time to work the glass and I never felt rushed and it layed down great, and it had the right amount of resin in it, no dry spots and not floating.

Will be glassing the exterior seams this weekend, just have to round over seams.  Hopefully will have time to  pre-coat the sides and front section of bow and do some fairing in preparation exterior glassing.   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 23, 2016, 01:44:16 PM

By the time you finish just the hull itself, you're an expert at epoxy and glass...

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 23, 2016, 05:10:15 PM
Brian,

Glassing the inner and outer chine seams,  reading the construction manual:

"When you tape the inner and outer chine seams, use a nice fillet on the inner seam and donít overlap the first or second layers of glass on the two seams, preferring instead to have them meet edge to edge so you maintain the flatness of the chine flats."

I am picturing (in my mind) 2 rows of of 4" 9oz tape side by side with edges touching (center of chine) running full length of chine, then 2 rows of 6" biax butted in the same manor with 1 piece 16" wide or so covering both previous layers.

Did I get that right?
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on September 23, 2016, 08:48:05 PM
Not as good as I thought, a few spots need attention:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 24, 2016, 04:33:25 PM
Looks fine and typical to me ...those hollows can be cut out with a razor blade and glassed over ...but in your case, I'd either make a tiny hole on each end and fill with epoxy, or just slice them out and pretend they weren't there.  They aren't big enough to be a structural issue.  My biggest concern is that hollow spots like those can hold water.  I feel better if there are no hidden pockets to hold water and whatever might grow in it...

Scrape the edges of glass with a carbide scraper to taper, and then lightly sand and coat it all with epoxy.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 26, 2016, 05:57:14 PM
Confused again,

How to end inner and outer chine seams at transom? Transom will get 3 layers on the exterior seam and the chine seam intersects how?  Should I stagger how then end at the transom?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 27, 2016, 06:00:16 AM
I suspect you're over thinking it a bit.  The tape on the chine seams just run right to the end the chines at the transom.  Later, you will put the tape on the transom corners, inside and out, and that tape will go right on over  any glass that's on the chine seams... and no, you will not be able to somehow overlap or stop edge-to-edge the various layers of glass to make all things perfectly flat ...you will take a wide blade or square trowel and fair it in, just like tapering in high spots when doing dry wall tape.  In the end, when the boat is painted, all will appear perfectly flat to the naked eye ...it'll look perfect.  I hope this is clear ..but words aren't worth diddly compared to pictures.  I just don't happen to have pictures of the chines v. transom joints and glass.  Maybe someone else here does?  In any case, it'll all work out as you go.  For now, the chine fiberglass goes right to the end of the chine seams, and don't worry too much about funny overlaps at the bow or transom.  You'll fair it in later and it'll turn out  great :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 27, 2016, 09:12:03 AM
Ok, got it no pics needed.  Just one more question.

When flattening for the keel strake, wish I had a picture of that.  The keel past the knee still seems pretty round for a keel strake to sit upon.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 27, 2016, 10:18:15 AM
Ok, got it no pics needed.  Just one more question.

When flattening for the keel strake, wish I had a picture of that.  The keel past the knee still seems pretty round for a keel strake to sit upon.

You mean making a flat along the keel from the bow tip on down, so that the keel strake has a flat surface to land on?  The 3/4" wide flat only exists from the tip of the bow down to just where the bow 'knee' (actually called the forefoot of the hull) meets the keel under the boat.  The flat just makes it easier to install the strake, so it won't tend to wander off to one side of the boat or the other.  The 3/4" wide flat is first planed into the bottom panels (see p. 88, part 1 of the construction manual), then later on the 3/4" wide flat is planed from the bottom panels up to the tip of the bow (see p. 103, part 1 of the construction manual).  I don't have pictures, but if you look at the drawing on p. 88 and imagine a horizontal line intersecting the bow point (shown in cross section), you'll get the idea.

I don't think you were, but if you were perhaps referring to the straightening of the keel along the aft half of the boat prior to building the keel seam, that's shown in drawing #006ca.

Ask more questions if you need to ...or if you would like a sketch from me or anything, just ask :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 30, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
I decided to fill all the holes and some fairing during the week, and glassing of the seams this weekend, then fair in the seams. If goes well maybe get the hull glassed (Wishful thinking).

I went ahead and marked out the spray rails, I could not find a good batten so I used 2" masking tape ($$ 3m yellow).  It is pretty stiff tape compared to the blue painters tape but worked well for this. Just another way to skin a cat.

   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 30, 2016, 01:34:56 PM
I've made my own battens before, using wood trim strips from Home Depot... Couldn't find square cross section ones, so bought rectangular cross section ones instead.  I ran them through the table saw, then glued them end to end using a 'cheap-n-easy' scarf cut from my chop saw.  I had 24' long battens at one time... worked great.  Not too much demand in stores for really long thin strips of wood!

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 02, 2016, 02:23:00 PM
Been reading the manual again, I cant find when to glass the exterior transom and if you use biaxial.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 02, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
Been reading the manual again, I cant find when to glass the exterior transom and if you use biaxial.

You're right ...I don't see that either!  (sorry)

Use plain woven fiberglass cloth throughout.  The  manual tells you what weights (I'd go 10 oz on the bottom, 6 to 10 oz on the sides and transom, your choice).  The order of glassing is as follows:

1. Glass the side panels, allowing glass to overlap onto (or even past) the chine (or clear past the chine flat onto the bottom panels ...it all works).  When cured, trim along the edge of the side panels (a sander w/80-grit held at an angle works great).  With a carbide scraper, scrape off any irregularities in the cloth (bumps, threads of glass, points etc) and along the edges of the glass where it overlapped onto other parts of the boat, e.g. overlap onto the opposite side panels at the bow, chines/chine flats/bottom panels (depending on how wide your glass was), and transom.  Then with a straight-edge trowel, use epoxy thickened with fairing compound to fill in / taper the edges of the glass to the hull.  Repeat for the other side of the boat.

2. Using a similar approach, glass the bottom panels, preferably allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and past the keel a few inches.  If your glass isn't wide enough, then make sure you at least allow it to overlap past the  chines and onto the side panels a few inches.  If there is a gap between port and starboard glass along the keel, e.g. a long football shape gap, cut out fiberglass cloth to cover the gap, allowing it to overlap he perimeter of the gap a few inches all the way around (fair in the first glass before you apply the patch, then fair in the patch after it's cured).

3. Finally, glass the transom in a similar manner, allowing the glass to overlap onto the sides and bottom of the boat.

When you're done, the entire outside of the hull will be sheathed in glass, all edges trimmed and faired-in as best you can.  Note that you'll have to cut slices into the glass at corners to allow first one side, then the other, to overlap and be epoxied in place.  Remember my hint of making such slices slightly off from the  actual point of the corner and not slicing clear onto the corner ...stop short.  This will allow glass to stretch over the corner and protect it.

You'll be coating the boat (fill coats) with epoxy next, keeping in mind your future painting and possibly our graphite-epoxy coating on the bottom, so pay attention to the fairing... better early than late if you want to minimize work and time.  You'll fair again prior to painting, to fill hollows etc (long-board sanding), but the fairing that you do along edges and corners and seams/overlaps now will go a long way to help you get a nice finish on the boat later on ...with minimum effort (who wants extra work?  Especially if it's sanding, fairing and filling, repeat?).

Not sure if I mentioned it in the manual, but note that you'll likely want to glass the top of the transom, using wide glass tape (8 to 12 inches wide), letting the glass overlap the transom inside and out... nice to have bang protection along that top edge.  For that, I'd use 10-oz plain woven glass.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 02, 2016, 11:06:20 PM
Thank you again, seems to be going at a snails pace.  I made the 3/4:" wide flat on the bow and rounded the chine seams and a full day of sanding , filling holes etc on Saturday. Today I faired the bow some more. I set up the laser and seems I screwed one side of the bow in a little more, so more sanding and got it looking good.  I finished the keel seam with 3 layers of glass, added fillet on front chine and put glass 2 layers on the chine seams (stern) and one 8" wide on the front part. Looked up, 9:00... dangit I wanted to get the seams done this weekend.

Called it a night.  I can scrape a little tomorrow night and put the final cloth on the chine seams.  Back to work tomorrow so I can rest up for tomorrow night.

I need to retire so I can work on my boat more.     
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 03, 2016, 08:18:46 AM
Sounds like you got a LOT done to me!  I tend to mentally form to-do lists that I want to get done on a particular day, then make it about halfway through the list ... always.  I get a lot done, but I think I suffer from always expecting to be able to get more done than is feasible... so it goes, especially with boat building.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 03, 2016, 02:15:38 PM
So if I scrape the irregularities of the chine seam and fill with micro-baloon fairing compound and do a nice job with troweling it on, can I apply the glass without sanding the fairing compound? 

Like the fillets, let it firm up good and go for it?

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 04, 2016, 08:13:48 AM
When I scrape off the irregularities, I go at it fairly assertively, but also make sure I do not accidentally dig into the fiberglass cloth too.  A carbide scraper is also the very best tool at removing drips and runs ...sanding is NOT.

After doing a good job with the fairing compound, I do indeed sand it.  It'll never be perfect, so sanding will help smooth things out.  You can sand as soon as it's cured enough to not ball up on the sandpaper, e.g. make little hard spots on the sandpaper.  It doesn't hurt it to sand too soon, but those little hard spots of fairing compound on the sandpaper make the sand paper less effective.  If you see those forming, just give it another day... go work on something else for a bit.  Sometimes, if it all looks pretty perfect as-is without having to sand it, I do sand anyway... but often just a hand sanding with 80-grit.

If your epoxy forms any kind of a blush, do also make sure that you wash down the hull with ammonia water before sanding.  I just mix up a 5-gal bucket of water w/ammonia and use an old hand towel like a wash cloth to liberally wipe down the hull before sanding ...and a quick wipe after sanding, right before coating again.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on October 05, 2016, 02:08:41 PM
I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 05, 2016, 06:49:24 PM
I used a card scraper for the fine tuning prior to glassing. Worked well! Best though if you do wet on wet whenever you can.

Is that one of those scrapers that looks like a square of sheet metal ...you give it a slight bend and pull it along?  I think I saw a guy on TV scraping (like fine planing) the top of a cabinet that he'd made with one of those.  Never seen or tried one myself....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 06, 2016, 08:13:06 AM
Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper.  The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right. 

Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there.  Its an I-phone.

Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 06, 2016, 10:25:33 AM
Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.

I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.

When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 06, 2016, 02:50:57 PM
Card scrapers work, just like the carbide scraper.  The sewn edge on the cloth leaves quite a ridge and my wet on wet of biaxial left areas along that edge with bubbles which I opened up with a knife and filled with fairing compound. Maybe not doing it quite right. 

Worked till 1:00 am Monday night and threw my clothes in the wash and left my cell phone in my pocket.... son of a bitch probably a $600-700 mistake.. and no backup of my photos or data so another lesson there.  Its an I-phone.

Sanded the fairing compound on one side last night will do the other side tonight. My original plan was to put on another layer of glass every night to avoid all the sanding which did not happen so grinding it out as they say.

Your phone might still be OK if you had a Samsung S7 like mine... It's waterproof to 2 meters and shock resistant (and so is the case it's in - shock resistant that is).  This is WHY I went for this particular phone.  It's more "outdoorsman ready" than any other that I looked at.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 06, 2016, 02:52:34 PM
Sanding lightly with 80 grit on the epoxied cloth by hand, hope that's good enough, did not want to use a d/a and tear up the glass.

I stopped the chine glass at the transom, did not wrap it onto the transom.

When I tape the transom exterior there will be 60oz of glass on this chine end unless I am supposed to stagger the glass somehow.

Good ...no need to wrap chine tape (glass) onto the transom.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 11:57:40 AM
I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax.  I now know why you should put the cloth on top of the biax!  It worked good though no extra seams to fair on the chine flats and I used Tape & Drape to catch the epoxy runs which really sucked having to scrape them off when I did the rear chine's, still pissed over that.

I scraped the edges between glassing sessions and scraped the biax and applied a thin coat of fairing compound.   

I had problems with wet on wet glass getting void's along the edge of the glass so I decided to slow down a bit more and do one at a time.
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 11:58:43 AM
More pics:

I used full length glass from previous chine glass, rolled it up on tubes after wetout and rolled it out, the cloth was easy I was able to pull on the glass hard enough to remove wrinkles from the front after about half of it was on.  The biax was more difficult to bend but I just ran it a little higher to help make the bend and trimmed it off at the blue tape.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 12:05:19 PM
Just need to figure out the transom extension so I can finish taping the transom.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
I may have to install risers on the stringers, the extended platform and the rear bulkhead while upside down so I can finish taping the transom.
 
I just don't see any other way.

I have 2 questions, should I use 1/2" or 3/4" for the rear bulkhead?  and should I extend the rear bulkhead down to the fairbody or just stop it at the sole?

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 11, 2016, 02:43:53 PM

Well ...This is a 2-part question at least.

First, you get a bunch of difference forces piling up on the transom.  For example, every time the boat flexes (oil-canning and hogging), the transom corners try to flex as well.  Those corners are stress concentraters.  To fight that and to prevent breakage of the epoxy fillet and glass at those corners, you want to build strong fillets (see the construction manual on this) ...but you also want a stiff transom.  So even though your motor will be out on a hull extension, this boat flex will be occurring regardless.  I vote for a strong transom, your 'rear bulkhead' above, and would go 1" thick from the deck up.

The motor, especially on an extension, will throw it's weight and thrust around and try to impart racking (twisting) forces on the transom.  Part of that will also impact the transom (your 'rear bulkhead') ...I would go ahead and go with 1" thick down to the bottom panels.

The Proverbial Bottom Line: I vote for a 1" thick transom from sheer to fairbody... :D

For the minor weight increase compared to going lighter, I would encourage building a little stronger as spelled out above for boats like yours that have an extended hull (which I like better than an Armstrong type bracket for example).

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 09:15:43 PM
Sounds good on the 1" rear bulkhead.  Looks like I will make bulkhead to sit on  deck, just have to leave room to slip the main deck between stringers and rear bulkhead.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 11, 2016, 11:25:17 PM
Lots of planning and thinking for me, I cant visualize easy access to all seams with rear bulkhead and deck of extended transom in place which I need in place to tape exterior transom / side seam.  I need to router a slot in the motor mount beam to accept the rear deck, need to think more. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 12, 2016, 07:36:54 AM
You can reach everything prior to the deck pieces going in, but there is no way to glass seams on the bottom of the deck, e.g. where the deck rests on stringers.  That's why you make sure that everything under the deck, and the perimeter of the decking itself, is waterproofed with plenty of epoxy (and glass as it seems fit) prior to laying the deck down ...there is only epoxy gluing it in place on the underside, and tape just on the top seams once the decks are in.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 12, 2016, 11:06:17 AM
When taping the interior transom to the sides/hull the glass will start and stop at the stringers or lap onto the stringers?
Then when taping the stringers do I need to extend that glass onto the transom?

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 12, 2016, 03:56:43 PM
When taping the interior transom to the sides/hull the glass will start and stop at the stringers or lap onto the stringers?
Then when taping the stringers do I need to extend that glass onto the transom?

The stringers-to-bottom panel glass does not wrap onto the transom - it's a heavy structure.

The glass tape that goes on the transom-to-bottom panel seam is easiest to install with nearly no overlap onto the stringers, but I like glassing the ends of the stringers to the transom (interior face) as well ...it's easiest to glass the stringers to the transom as a separate step.  Hope that clarifies things... sorry if the manual wasn't clear enough on this stuff.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 12, 2016, 10:28:29 PM
Thank you, the manual is probably clear enough its me that overthinks this stuff all the time. 

Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 13, 2016, 07:36:28 AM
Thank you, the manual is probably clear enough its me that overthinks this stuff all the time. 

Bob

Every boat builder spends a ton of time thinking through stuff... it's the nature of the beast ...and results in a better boat :)

bd


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 17, 2016, 11:30:40 PM
I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax. 

I may have messed up, doing a spreadsheet today and discovered that I purchased 0/90 biaxial 12", I used this on the forward chine seam, rear section has 2 rows of +/-45. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 18, 2016, 07:10:02 AM
I glassed the front chine's with 8" x 10oz cloth and 12" x 12oz biax. 

I may have messed up, doing a spreadsheet today and discovered that I purchased 0/90 biaxial 12", I used this on the forward chine seam, rear section has 2 rows of +/-45.

No worries... there is plenty of glass on the boat, and with those beams and decks in place, those chines are well beyond strong enough.  Your 0/90 biax is stronger than standard woven since the layers of glass yarn lay flat, and the boat is fine with just standard woven.  Keep on truckin' ....go fishing sooner!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 18, 2016, 09:01:54 AM
That takes a load off of my mind! 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 18, 2016, 01:18:25 PM
That takes a load off of my mind!

You'll find that the boat is stiff and stout and then you won't doubt... haha, that rhymes!  Relax... be happy...

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 20, 2016, 01:32:52 PM
The extended transom does add time to the build for sure, I had to install risers on the stringers, loft and cut the rear bulkhead (2 pieces of 1/2") laminate and install from underneath the boat, while I was down there I installed the transom knees to the rear bulkhead that I installed. I put 2 " radius fillets on the rear bulkhead and 30oz of glass with glass mini-fibers as well.

I still have to put 3" fillets on the rear transom (vertical portion at least and I may end up doing this after the deck is on from underneath)and glass 30oz with mini fibers added, mount the deck on the extended portion (from underneath the boat) before I can finish taping the exterior transom seams and sides to the rear bulkhead and deck I added. And before the deck goes on I have to glass the underside of the deck since accessibility will be limited.

I am not complaining, just sayin...

On a side note I am having trouble using taptalk with this sight and reset password will not work.
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 20, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
I wouldn't do all that underneath taping until the boat is upright, and I would build the outside seams now.  After turning, then go back and do the interior seams and add decking.  Am I missing something here?

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 20, 2016, 07:23:39 PM
I think so, the deck on the extended platform has to be taped to the sides. The deck will give limited access to the transom.  The pic below does not show the bottom panels installed, the rear bulkhead is yellow and the rear deck is green, I will have to reach the transom thru this access.  The second pic is crude, to show how sides will be taped to the rear deck.  Hope it makes sense.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 21, 2016, 10:04:40 AM
Actual pics may help, these are from underneath looking over the rear bulkhead:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on October 21, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
So if I scrape the irregularities of the chine seam and fill with micro-baloon fairing compound and do a nice job with troweling it on, can I apply the glass without sanding the fairing compound? 

Like the fillets, let it firm up good and go for it?
In my experience, limited though it may be, it is better to fill, scrape and sand (60-80 grit) prior to glassing. Adding glass over irregular surfaces compounds the original low, high or ridge.
As far as sanding goes, Brian is absolutely right, balling means more cure. Also, coarse paper (40-60 grit) creates less heat meaning less balling allowing you to go farther, faster.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 21, 2016, 01:29:10 PM
I had high hopes on that troweling to perfection, but using 8" and 12" wide glass on the front chine seams was golden!

10-4 on the fill, scrape and sand and #40 and #60 is what I used.  Works great except for the aches in my arms and shoulders.  By the time I get done with this my shoulders will look like this:


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on October 21, 2016, 04:33:03 PM
LOL!


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on October 24, 2016, 04:41:43 PM
Update time. I glassed and installed the rear bulkhead, put 30 oz of glass on the interior transom. I did the transom interior seams before installing the rear deck. Just need to add stiffeners for the rear deck. I think 3/4" plywood 4" tall mounted in saddles should work. I got really good at bumping my head while underneath. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/7058a68a282c134b440a3534fcac3968.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/d58b1701a97112a24979f778e43f29ca.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/15d6bbfeb3a6f0932d4042468fd640f6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/2c96954a2b79827c5f0efcece9a7c48f.jpg)


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on October 24, 2016, 04:45:24 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/a63799538a00ebd97382af00b4776e5b.jpg)this on shows ledger installed.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 25, 2016, 07:52:37 AM
For working upside down, you're doing very neat work!  Hey ...did you learn a new language when you got your head knocked off?  Reminds me of when I was under my truck, working with a wrench straight up over my face ...dropped the wrench, reactively turned my head super fast to one side ...smack(!) ...right into the suspension!  I about knocked myself out ...geez that hurt. :(

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 25, 2016, 08:55:31 AM
Brian,

On that last pic, where the side meets the rear deck, should I add fillet and glass over the ledgers?

Last night I added 30oz to where the transom meets the inner deck, it is tight working especially the side chambers.

I have my supports for the floor cut out, I will glass them with light glass prior to install.
All under deck wood is supposed to have glass correct?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 25, 2016, 10:34:50 AM
At work resting up for the night shift, I drew up the floor supports in SkechUp, I will radius the plywood support to make it easy to glass with 1 piece.  I drilled 3/4" hole in the saddle's and used the table saw to cut the slot.  I will be installing these supports on the bottom of the rear deck which is upside down right now so it will be easy to do.  When I drilled the saddles I matched the angle of the transom and rear bulkhead so the support will sit all the way down in the saddle.
See Attached.

For working upside down, you're doing very neat work!  Hey ...did you learn a new language when you got your head knocked off?  Reminds me of when I was under my truck, working with a wrench straight up over my face ...dropped the wrench, reactively turned my head super fast to one side ...smack(!) ...right into the suspension!  I about knocked myself out ...geez that hurt. :(

bd



I hit my head many times and every time I promised to be more careful. (cussing of course) 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 25, 2016, 12:40:51 PM
Brian,

On that last pic, where the side meets the rear deck, should I add fillet and glass over the ledgers?

Not sure what a "ledger" is, but glass all seams....

I have my supports for the floor cut out, I will glass them with light glass prior to install.
All under deck wood is supposed to have glass correct?

You still working on an upside down boat?  I'm still not sure I get that...

Yes, everything under the deck should be sealed in epoxy and at least lightweight glass, e.g. bottom of deck, stringers etc.  Wood may check (cracks in the surface) if only epoxy coated rather than being glassed and epoxied - and access will be exactly zero once you complete the boat.  You want the insurance of having at least a light layer of glass on everything to prevent checking.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 25, 2016, 01:59:38 PM
I should have said "cleats" actually I think it is called a "nailer" in your construction manual, they are supports for the extended transom deck.  Those are solid sapele but was not sure if I have to glass them too.

I will go ahead and glass right over the nailers then.

When I install the main deck I will glass all the short nailers before I install them, man that will be tedious, glass 3 sides and the ends and coat with 3 coats of epoxy before installing. I see what you mean, 50% done and 80% to go once flipped.


"Working on an upside down boat"  As soon as I tape the exterior seams around the transom, rear deck and rear bulkhead I will flip it. 

Hopefully this weekend I will finish up the exterior seams.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 25, 2016, 03:29:24 PM
Oh ...THOSE!  I use solid wood for that because it minimizes the end grain exposure.  I seal the end grain with smooth silica-thickened epoxy, rubbing it in good and leaving it on thick, then give the wood at least 3 coats of epoxy (usually with leftover epoxy while working on other stuff).  I don't glass the nailers... note that they are separated from the hull by a layer of glass and epoxy and rot is not likely to spread anywhere but within the nailer piece of wood.  Once the decks are installed, the nailers are more inconsequential.  What I've also done, is to draw a line on the hull around the perimeter of the (bottom edge of) the decking and then go back with a gallon Ziplog full of thickened epoxy and just squeeze out a line of epoxy, say the size of a dime in diameter, along the line ...let it cure.  Epoxy will not rot.  Once cured the line of epoxy works like a continuous nailer that you can glue the deck down on ...squeeze fresh epoxy around the whole perimeter, on top of the cured 'big bead' of epoxy, and then let the deck settle down onto it.  If your deck fit isn't too far off, this works great.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 29, 2016, 08:53:21 PM
I have a question on the rear seams, I am pretty sure you will say all of them but here goes.

The seams on transom, will get the 30oz glass treatment with biaxial in the mix but should the rear bulkhead (#4 in the pic) get the same 30oz treatment?

On the extended transom deck (upside down now) I am planning on just doing a 1" radius fillet and glass with 4" - 10oz, should I do more on that?

The last pic is just for show, lot of work for just a few pieces. I added 3 under the extended transom.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 30, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
I would go with the 30 on the primary transom seams (1 and 2), but probably 20 is fine on 3 & 4.

Looking great, BTW.  Nice neat work ... :)

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on October 30, 2016, 12:00:30 PM
Thanks again. Doing the fillets now, after it sets up I will finish off the transom seams.
Floor supports installed:




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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 30, 2016, 11:46:00 PM
Your lower motor bolts will go through under the swim platform deck from what I can see ...how will you reach them once the boat is built?

bd


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on October 31, 2016, 09:04:55 AM
Brian is right, you will need an access hatch to reach the mounting bolts. I put one in my splash well as well, for the same purpose.  I originally was going to use a six inch screw in hatch, but when I got to that point I realized it just wasn't big enough. Ended up using a 10x12 Bomar hatch. Bought it on close out sale direct from the factory at a major discount.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 31, 2016, 09:46:38 AM
I will use a 8" screw in deck plate, that should do it. My current boat has a snap in type mounted offset to kicker side so easy access to both motor mount bolts.   Probably go with a Beckson. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 31, 2016, 01:28:10 PM
I will use a 8" screw in deck plate, that should do it. My current boat has a snap in type mounted offset to kicker side so easy access to both motor mount bolts.   Probably go with a Beckson.

An 8" round one will work fine... I've used them before.  But KEEP IN MIND that there is NO SUCH THING as a waterproof deck plate unless it screws or bolts down with at least 6 screws/bolts and has a quality gasket.  The only exception are certain heavy aluminum commercial-grade ones ...but they're spendy.  Plan on water.  Wire in a bilge pump for that compartment....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on October 31, 2016, 05:15:01 PM
Right now that compartment is not closed off bit it will be after the flip. I will probably mount 2 bilge pumps back there.

Just finished the fillets and 20 oz glass. When I tape the rear seams I will put 6" biax and 8" cloth on all rear seams and let sheathing cover for the 30 oz schedule. Decided to cover the biaxial on seams 3 & 4.


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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: robertrosie5 on October 31, 2016, 06:04:43 PM
Forgot the pic:



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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on November 01, 2016, 05:52:06 AM
You  know... you could also cut a rectangular opening through the forward transom, below the level of the swim platform decking... perhaps you could reach the lower motor mount bolts through that ...or maybe there's not enough height to give you a reasonable opening.  If that works, however, you could even leave it open or use a rectangular bomar hatch or equivalent, and have no deck plate on the swim platform deck? 

I wouldn't sweat having water in that compartment.  It's a boat.  But I'd provide a way to automatically remove it (bilge pump) and also consider how you'll keep the area vented ...at least when not in use.  Deck plates on vertical surfaces (or hatches) leak a lot less than deck plates mounted on horizontal surfaces.  I vowed long ago to never put deck plates on exposed horizontal surfaces again ...but then again, some are unavoidable.  Just something to keep in mind.

bd

PS: Your fillets and glass work look great ...as usual.  You're going to have a nice boat. :)

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: starbright55 on November 02, 2016, 07:23:12 AM
Most guys swear by the Armstrong hatches (Armstrong - the guys that make the aluminum outboard brackets). Said they leak the least.  I'm sure they're not cheap.

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Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on November 02, 2016, 07:55:32 AM
Nice hint!  I had totally forgotten about those and hadn't looked at them in years.  They have a seal and clamp the deck to close:

http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/pd/70606/-Watertight-Compression-Deck-Plates
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/armstrong-nautical-round-watertight-compression-deck-plates

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on November 02, 2016, 09:12:12 AM
Thanks for that, they look to be better designed and not too expensive.

Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on November 03, 2016, 09:08:06 AM
Thanks for that, they look to be better designed and not too expensive.

Bob

Agreed... they've got to work better than the screw-in ones, and likely better than the quick release ones too.  I'd definitely go with Armstrong...

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 19, 2017, 07:45:21 PM
Align with upper side of the chine radius, otherwise you'd have fill work to do ...and the purpose is to knock down spray.  It'll do that fine when installed as shown below:

(http://glacierboats.com/images/chine.jpg)

Brian
What happened to this pic? 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 20, 2017, 04:25:11 AM
Good catch!  I moved the forums to a different server and missed a few of the images files.  They should work now... although you may need to refresh you screen :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 20, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
Perfect and thank you!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 13, 2017, 01:28:04 PM
Forgive me father, for I have sinned...  Its been 4 months since I my last worked on my boat. Life gets in the way sometimes and part time boat builder is faced with many challenges.

I promise to re-sand re-clean, apply fairing compound and sand some more then add the exterior glass.  I have no vision of finishing this year and I will be ok with that, setting my sights on next year for the launch.

One thing I discovered was that the keel was not flat / fair as I wanted so I used a long strait edge covered with box tape and put a bead of silica thickened epoxy to make a flat keel and fair.  I have since applied fairing compound to blend the keel into the bottom nice, the 2 rows of glass tape are blended in good now. I could have faired it all later after applying glass but it bothered.

I tried to use tap-talk but there is an error.

I should be able to start putting glass on the hull this coming weekend.  I will add some pics soon.



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 13, 2017, 02:07:38 PM
Pics as promised, the keel had 1/8" low spots in a couple spots but the batten and strait edges with epoxy fixed it.

(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01441.jpg)

(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01431.jpg)

(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01611.jpg)

Added fairing to blend it in:

(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/IMG_01641.jpg)

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 14, 2017, 07:00:56 AM
Yup ... Tapatalk is failing for now.  I've been working on the web site instead, and on updating the plans manuals and drawings ...they're all out of date with old addresses and copyrights, and Windows got rid of a font that I used, so now I have to edit every drawing and tune font sizes and text locations.  I'll work on the forum issues after I finish the plans package update.  No errata is coming that I know of ... I checked issues pointed out by some and found that the updates had already made it into the last release.

Your fairing work looks really good, nice textbook example of how to do it right.  I like to fair between all layers, e.g. fair the wood ...then glass ...then fair ...then 2nd layer of glass ...then fair.  If you don't do it that way, then sometimes defects can add up and make life more difficult later.  It's better to take down high spots and fill the lows at every opportunity as you go.  You'll appreciate it later...

Brian

PS: Great pix!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 21, 2017, 09:18:17 PM
Brian,

I am thinking ahead again, when the sheer decks are added, do I glass the top of the sheer deck and wrap the glass onto the sides?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 22, 2017, 07:19:18 AM
Brian,

I am thinking ahead again, when the sheer decks are added, do I glass the top of the sheer deck and wrap the glass onto the sides?

Exactly!  Boats tend to flex in a 'hogging' and 'oil-canning' way.  As they climb up a swell, the bow wants to flex upward - which forces the sides outward.  When on top of a swell (like a teeter-totter), the opposite happens.  The sheer structure in this boat is designed to resist these flexions - it is effectively a horizontal beam.  If you glass the sheer decks and wrap it over onto the sides of the boat, the tensile strength added by the glass is a great back-up to the sheer structure.  A common place for boats to crack (and leak into the boat ...it's upholstery etc) is along the sheer and this is why.  Other stress concentration areas are along the bow stem and the transom corners.  These places flex like a hinge as the boat flexes, and that's why I use a heavy stem and the glass-reinforced epoxy putty for the transom corners... I've seen cracks in boats in all of these areas, but not in a Great Alaskan!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 22, 2017, 01:45:41 PM
Perfect explanation!  Since they are subject to abuse biax and 10oz should make it bullet proof!


Thank you!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 23, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Perfect explanation!  Since they are subject to abuse biax and 10oz should make it bullet proof!


Thank you!

The Great Alaskan, as designed, is over-strong... on purpose, so imperfect builds or cheap plywood would still work fine :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on March 23, 2017, 09:28:35 PM
Correction: The Great Alaskan is a Fish catching, rough water safe boat, designed to take it under rough conditions. Overbuilding would insinuate heavy, tank like construction, quite the opposite is true!   It is a stable craft which handles the seas with seaming ease!

PS, Send all donations to my PayPal account...Just kidding, in case you hadn't figured it out, I love my boat!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 23, 2017, 10:30:06 PM
That's a great report, and review.  Glad you are enjoying it, do you get out bottom fishing / halibut?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on March 24, 2017, 10:51:30 PM
I have been working at getting a house ready to sell. Haven't had time for fun other than just getting home from Mexico; two weeks of bliss...
I am planning on getting her cleaned up and going crabbing next week, depending on how the house sale is going.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 25, 2017, 05:28:13 AM
Hey .. thanks for the rave reviews!  It means a lot!   ;D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 22, 2017, 09:47:43 AM
I finally finished the reverse chines and put glass on one bottom side of the hull, overlapped about 6" onto the side panels, transom and keel.

Laying down the glass is way more fun than sanding fairing compound.  I put space heaters under the hull to warm up the hull and the glass wetted out easily. It took me 3 hours by myself to get this done. 

Can I use a butt joint for the side panel glass to bottom panel glass since it is overlapped 6" onto the side? 

I tapered the glass on the keel overlap and will apply some fairing compound before applying the second row of bottom glass.   

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 23, 2017, 05:04:54 AM
Re side panel to bottom panel glass and butt joint - You can use a butt joint, which is to say, the side panel glass just lays edge to edge with the bottom panel glass that overlaps up the sides.  I generally never use butt joints with glass, since you often have to fill and sand a thin gap between the edges anyway.  It's a little more sanding to overlap an inch or two, but easy to reach anyway.  You can decide....

You're doing fantastic work, BTW.  The boat is really going together beautifully!  Way nicer than what I do ... LOL...

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on May 24, 2017, 10:43:59 PM
I finally finished the reverse chines and put glass on one bottom side of the hull, overlapped about 6" onto the side panels, transom and keel.

Laying down the glass is way more fun than sanding fairing compound.  I put space heaters under the hull to warm up the hull and the glass wetted out easily. It took me 3 hours by myself to get this done. 

Can I use a butt joint for the side panel glass to bottom panel glass since it is overlapped 6" onto the side? 

I tapered the glass on the keel overlap and will apply some fairing compound before applying the second row of bottom glass.   
I lapped mine, Inwanted no weak spots. I am sure that we "home" boat builders over build for the most part. However, that being said, I have seen a few that did not, and they paid a price. I would rather spend the little extra in time and cash than one day coming to the realization that I cut in the wrong spot. To me, bomb proof is a good thing.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 24, 2017, 11:08:17 PM
I decided not to do the butt joint. I filled along the edge of the side glass with fairing compound and a trowel. I ran a 1/2" bead of fairing compound with a pastry bag which worked great, one batch did one entire seam.

Since I have to sand these seams before applying the side glass, could I fill the weave on the bottom glass with thickened epoxy or a thin coat of fairing compound before adding the side glass? and do I need to sand the cloth before filling the weave?  Tomorrow night it will be 3 & 4 days cure for the bottom glass. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 25, 2017, 04:47:40 AM
Glad you are going with the overlap.  That's my preference.

I know that some find it easier to fill the weave in glass with some fairing compound mixed into the epoxy, but I generally don't ... but I also don't use heavier than about 10-oz as a last layer of glass, so the weave doesn't need a lot of filling.  What I do is to first sand the cured glass lightly with a random orbital and around 100-grit paper - but lightly, just enough to smooth the epoxy a tad without getting into the glass.   If you DO touch a bit of glass here and there, don't worry about it, just try not to.  I find that with a light sanding like that, that the weave will fill much easier with straight epoxy rolled on.  That said, I do know that some swear by using some fairing compound - I just haven't found it necessary myself yet. 

And yes, it's OK to fill the weave before you add the side glass, and I do recommend it to some degree ... noting that you don't need to work so hard on it that the weave is finished completely.  After adding the side glass, you'll need to do similar work anyway.  Just fill enough of the weave for the next layer of glass to lay on it smoothly and call it good.  Do your 'finish work' later.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 25, 2017, 09:28:42 AM
Thank you, always good advice from you. I am looking forward to finishing the side glass this weekend and filling the weave.  Its nice to feel like I am making progress.

A couple pics for show:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 01, 2017, 04:42:16 PM
Update,

I finished glassing the sides and I have back-filled the chines and transom edges.  I am going shrimping Saturday so will do what I can on Sunday fairing.

I have used a fairing mix which I am pretty sure phelonoic microbaloons and silica, which is a bitch to sand in comparison to QuickFair, I used it at bow because I needed it done fast so I could lay the other side glass the same day and it sands and spreads like butter....

photos:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 02, 2017, 06:09:44 AM
I'm surprised at the remark on microballoons and silica ... And, I think you meant microspheres.  The white fairing mix is glass microspheres and the purple is phenolic microballoons... confusing terms.  In any case, I find the opposite to be true.  Microspheres (white, glass) needs less silica to make it non-sagging (thixotropic) and feathers out more nicely ...when goopy or when cured and sanded.  I prefer it.  Microballoons (purple, phenolic), doesn't seem to want to become non-sagging without adding more silica than I prefer, which makes it harder to sand.  It doesn't appear to produce as smooth a finish or as fine an edge as the glass microspheres.  That's my impression anyway, and admittedly, it's a subjective kind of thing and someone else may believe the opposite to be true.

In general, I will do my earliest fairing with microballoons, or anything that will be glassed over with additional glass is faired with microballoons.  Once the boat is sheathed and faired once with microballoon, then I will fair with the white glass microspheres ... intending it to be a final fairing.  If I've "got religion" on the finish, I have used the WEST System plastic mini-fibers for fairing in pin-sized scratches prior to primer and paint.  I think System III sells plastic minifibers now too.... but since they can shrink in heating/cooling cycles and can 'print' underlying layers, it's best to use it for just the finest scratches ... and it feathers out beautifully.

Your close-up fiberglass pic is perfect for showing the pattern of bumps that results on glass right after it's first cure.  You should take another pic of the glass after a light sanding with 100-grit to show how it just takes the tops off (without getting into the glass) and produces a surface that is much easier to fill with a fill-coat of epoxy.

How'd the shrimping go?

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 02, 2017, 08:55:29 AM
Shrimping is good:

On the fairing compounds, We are on the same page, I was comparing what a bitch to sand the phelonic microbaloons were compared to microsperes (quickfair).

I did do a quick sand #120 on the and it smoothed right out, I will get a pic and post Sunday.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 04, 2017, 05:33:40 AM
Nice shrimp!  Makes me hungry!

Keep up the good work on that boat... really looks great!

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 04, 2017, 10:59:46 AM
I gave it a quick sand with some #120 grit Bosch sandpaper. This stuff rocks, it is a heavy weight paper, not what you usually find.  This 120 sands better than the 80 grit I used which was Carborundum. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FDCKQS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FDCKQS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I will try to add a short video.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 04, 2017, 11:34:36 AM
and a short video of sanding:
http://vid753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/Sanding%20120.mp4 (http://vid753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/Rbob_photos/28ft%20Great%20Alaskan/Sanding%20120.mp4)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 05, 2017, 07:26:09 AM
Good to know that the Bosch paper is so much better.  One of the defining differences between a random orbital made by Fein versus others is the short height of the hook-n-loop fasteners.  It keeps the paper smooth, flat, and not much 'jiggle' on the hook-n-loop material ... the paper is much more effective when it's smooth, flat, AND moving as it should.  It sounds like the Bosch paper helps in most of these same ways and is very effective.  Got it on MY list for my next paper purchase.... :)  Thanks!

You took just the PERFECT amount of epoxy off on that glass.  Anyone can see how much that'll help the fill coat (that follows) fill the glass.  It'll take much less epoxy (fewer coats) and will be much smoother ... you're doing excellent work!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 05, 2017, 09:52:55 PM
I was buying paper from one of my woodworking suppliers, ran out and ran to Lowes. Their bulk brand held up better than the German brand I was using, I go through lots of paper so when I find a locally available brand that is cost effective I'm pretty happy! The brand (Diablo) they sell at Home Depot sucks!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 06, 2017, 05:16:54 AM
I was buying paper from one of my woodworking suppliers, ran out and ran to Lowes. Their bulk brand held up better than the German brand I was using, I go through lots of paper so when I find a locally available brand that is cost effective I'm pretty happy! The brand (Diablo) they sell at Home Depot sucks!

I haven't looked into Lowes for awhile ... Didn't know they had good sandpaper (thx)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 12, 2017, 02:30:00 PM
update,

I had a marathon session of sanding and adding more fairing compound.  The fairbody seam and the seam where my glass overlapped the inner chine needed more fill after all that sanding so I added more.

i know its under the boat and probably will never see it but... ADHD took over.

My first pass after the glass was micro balloon fairing mix and it sands not great I might say.  I used the rest of my Quickfair on this final pass and I had to make a bench mix  for the last 3-4 ft.

I used mainly glass bubbles and 1 scoop of the fairing compound mix just because it had some cabosil.

It spreads like crap compared to quickfair, maybe I made it too thick but I will be ordering more quickfair for the rest of the job..

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 13, 2017, 05:09:10 AM
Holy moly!  That's a lot of fairing work!  You'll be proud of it when it's done though ... your work on this boat is outstanding!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on September 20, 2017, 10:25:58 PM
I really like the transom fish box and extended hull design. Is your aft cockpit bulkhead (did I say that right?) At the 28' length or is it at 25'-6" or 26'?   As I understand my plans 28 ' is max for a GA.  That's gonna be one sexy machine!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 27, 2017, 08:35:42 PM
Sorry for the late reply, the bulkhead is 26'
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 28, 2017, 06:50:34 AM
I really like the transom fish box and extended hull design. Is your aft cockpit bulkhead (did I say that right?) At the 28' length or is it at 25'-6" or 26'?   As I understand my plans 28 ' is max for a GA.  That's gonna be one sexy machine!

If I recall, Kent Cannon's GA is 29' 4" ... longest one yet

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 30, 2017, 11:10:30 AM
Looking great! If I were to do it again, quickfair would be my go to fairing compound. It is so much easier to work with than the alternative! Not only that, but it cures fast allowing work to continue instead of waiting for epoxy to cure.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 30, 2017, 02:33:54 PM
I suck, I thought I would flip my boat this summer but I have not done anything since mid June. Sanding in a moon suit in 90 degree days is too much for me.  I use to be able to handle the heat but...  I have been working 60+ hours a week so not much left in the tank when I get home. 

I just cleaned it up today and plan on adding the last of the fairing compound. I have put a fill coat on the sides so after I finish the bottom fairing just need to put on sealing coats of epoxy then get add my strakes and splash rails.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 30, 2017, 02:53:12 PM
I suck, I thought I would flip my boat this summer but I have not done anything since mid June. Sanding in a moon suit in 90 degree days is too much for me.  I use to be able to handle the heat but...  I have been working 60+ hours a week so not much left in the tank when I get home. 

I just cleaned it up today and plan on adding the last of the fairing compound. I have put a fill coat on the sides so after I finish the bottom fairing just need to put on sealing coats of epoxy then get add my strakes and splash rails.

Boy, I know how you feel!  Moving to Idaho from Alaska has been killer on the heat thing ... summers at 60 F plus or minus ... changed to summers where the days hover around 100 F!  I've never had a garden that burned your hand to touch it ... mowing and easy outdoor tasks became volume-beer ordeals and worn out evenings trying to recuperate... geez!

Agree on the quickfair stuff.  A small 3-tablespoon batch goes a long way too, and it's quick to mix up another ... and you can sand on the same day!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on October 01, 2017, 10:04:10 AM
I recall Kent saying he was 29'-4".  The boat didn't look big or out of proportion anywhere after he made the changes he did.  I'm not saying it's not a big boat!   A GA is no slouch.   I was really into the " offshore bracket" look.  Nearly Everything on the water is that way out here.   It's what people think they want.  I was thinking it would help with resale too.  I hope I would never have to part with such a machine.    I really like having a clean transom  bulkhead for dead fish to ride in too.   Being a avid diver the extension behind the cockpit makes it easy to get back in.  Hope you flip soon and post more pics!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 01, 2017, 11:28:10 AM
Building the boat longer helps alleviate CG shift issues with offshore brackets.  Keep in mind that the GA gets good mileage because it's lighter than commercial boats ... you have to be just a tad more careful in where you put things and what you do with the boat, the trade off being your half-price cost for getting out when the fat boats have to stay home due to lack of funds.


Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 10, 2018, 12:27:15 PM
Brian,

Starting to make some progress, I finished fairing the bottom (finally) and have most of my strakes and spray rails cut.  I bought rough sawn Sapele 5/4 and planed it down to 1".  I planned on putting on the fairbody strake in 2 layers on the bow knee but I saw a video on steam bending (tips from a shipwright video (http://tips from a shipwright video)). So I start thinking. :o Then I look into steam bending and discover that Sapele is not a good wood for steam bending....  **** 

I decide to give it a try on a scrap piece 1.5" wide x 1" thick maybe 7' long.  I converted a crab cooker pot lid, added a 1" hose barb and a vent that I can open to add water.  I screwed metal strapping to the outside of the "bend" under tension I used a continuous roll of plastic tube and just put it over the area that would be receiving the bend and maybe 1' past on each side and just wrapped tape to seal it up and fed the steam from the middle.  I cut a snip at each end of the tubing to let the steam out and steamed it for just over an hour.

I just had a makeshift bench with some blocks screwed down for a jig and I thought it would be difficult to bend but it was quite easy to do, just clamped it on and let the steam go for another 15 minutes and shut everything down.   To my surprise it only sprung back a little once removed from the form.

I am going to bend in place the fairbody strake and if all goes well I will do the splash rails in place also.

Just a note on the thickness, I was going to apply 2 layers on the splash rails 3/4 + 3/8 but if I can do this in 1 layer why not just apply the 1" spray rail and call it done?    Not much of a difference.  I am attaching a couple pics and I may post a short video in a bit for entertainment purposes only.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 10, 2018, 12:32:43 PM
I did an experimental steam bending of white oak once, wondering if I wanted to build a particular canoe ... never did build the canoe, but the white oak was quite floppy and bendy when it came out of the steam.  Seemed pretty easy to me.  Maybe if someone says Sapele doesn't work well, maybe they mean it won't turn into a spaghetti noodle?  I wonder how well a thicker, like an inch or more, would bend?  You'll probably need to do an experiment to find out... fun stuff though.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on January 13, 2018, 10:34:45 PM
I still never tire watching others with their ingenuity! Looking forward to many more updates!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 14, 2018, 08:04:29 AM
Gougen Bros I read somewhere saying to lightly disc sand at 30 deg to the flow of grain.....
Rips open those cells, it's what I do on hardwood, don't with softer wood, as you say Brian, and i experienced the same, epoxy sticks very well to planned wood.
What makes it stick great is as Brian has in the manual, give the wood soak time in epoxy, till those dull areas look glossy with wet resin, then glass, glue etc...
Love my disc grinder, 125mm - 5" x 16 grit disc's, panel beaters supplies best price here.... Chews through @ 9000 rpm

I missed that "30 deg off" in the Gougeon Brother's book.  I suppose a guy could rough sand to get something close, then make a thin final cut with a plane to open the cells back up again? 

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 21, 2018, 10:53:19 PM
Another spray rail question,

I am confused too:

Quote
c) In your drawing of the main splash rail cross section, note that the slanted side faces downward in the picture (upward when the boat is upright) ...this helps spray and rain slide off the top of the spray rail.  The bottom face ends up perpendicular to the side of the boat and knocks down spray.

is this correct orientation:
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 22, 2018, 08:48:53 AM
Yup ... That be the correct orientation!  The right-angle on the bottom knocks down spray, but the slanted top allows water striking the side of the boat to slide back off... Hope that's clear  :o  8)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 22, 2018, 09:38:59 AM
Thank you,  my wife was helping me and questioned it so I revisited and had doubt.  When in doubt...

I have steam bent the fairbody strake, it went well except for the scart joint that could not take the heat so I will be joining those pieces on the boat.  I had 16' boards but cut them in half so in hindsight I should have left a piece 12' so the spray rails and the fairbody strake would not have a scarf joint to deal with.


I will be bending one of the main splash rails tonight and I will no include the scarf joint, just have to tape off the plastic tube maybe 6" from the scarf. 

I did full length strake and the boards are not that strait so I used the laser level and put saddles on with a small dab of hot glue.

couple pics:




Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 22, 2018, 01:44:14 PM
You're really doing fine job! Everything on the boat looks awesome!  This is the first steam bending that has gone onto a Great Alaskan, so it's really interesting to watch!  Thanks for sharing all the details and the pix!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 26, 2018, 11:54:19 PM
Well steam bending the main splash rails did not go as planned.  Since the wood had profile cut, bending left a outward twist on the skinny side of the wood.  Only one side attempted so I will just cut it off or heat the scarf and separate the front portion and remake it. 

I would not hesitate to do the keel strake again, that was easy.

So I will just put it on a few strips at a time as you suggest in the construction manual. 

Still getting closer which makes me happy so time to roll on some epoxy and glue on the strakes and spray rails.  I see primer and paint in my future...and the long awaited flip!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 27, 2018, 07:24:10 AM
I was wondering if the cross-sectional profile of the side strakes would influence the steam bending ... I guess so.  Well, you can put down the first layer and then top it with UHMD plastic, or go with all wood .... either works.  I like all wood myself.  No screw holes to invite water and rot, and unless you're a seine skiffer, I doubt you (or anyone) would bang the boat into anything enough to make something tougher required.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 09, 2018, 05:59:26 PM
Brian,

I used a brad nailer to install the strake and I put squares of 1/2" wood to keep the brads from penetrating all the way and the next morning I pulled the brads.

I found stainless steel brads 316 grade and I was thinking about just leaving them in when I add the second layer on the main spray rails. Do you think that is a good / bad idea?   

The brad holes left behind when I pull them are small and tough to get epoxy down in the hole so I am not sure how great of an idea that was.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 10, 2018, 07:21:44 AM
Those 316 SS brads will not be a problem in your lifetime or even in the lifetime of your grandchildren.   I'm not against them staying in if you make sure they are well-buried so that the holes they punch through layers of epoxy are well protected.  For example, when the first layer goes on and there is squeeze-out all the way around them (proof of no hidden gaps), and you put the second layer right over the top, then great ... no problems.  Same with gaps around the edges of the strakes where they meet the hull ... just make sure it's all sealed well.  The last issue is whether the brads punch through the hull to the inside and it sounds like you've mastered that process.  As for filling the holes from brads, if you pull them out, just make a mix of silica and epoxy (goopy) and use your gloved finger to dab some on over each hole, trying to push it into the holes.  It's hard to push epoxy into a dead-end hole since air in the hole doesn't want to compress to make room for epoxy.  But do your best and if anything, leave a little extra on and make the bumps flush with a scraper after they cure, then put final coats of epoxy on.  Any remaining tiny holes should seal up just find when straight epoxy is rolled/brushed on.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 10, 2018, 07:26:39 AM
Sounds great, the strakes and spray rails are taking way more time than I thought but I keep chugging along. I keep looking forward to flipping which is like a carrot dangling in front of me. ;D
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 10, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
Sounds great, the strakes and spray rails are taking way more time than I thought but I keep chugging along. I keep looking forward to flipping which is like a carrot dangling in front of me. ;D

The details get you ... You can frame a house in 2 weeks, then it takes 3 months to detail it out and finish it.  It's the way of the world.... but about 10 minutes after you finish that boat, you'll forget all about those hours and your eyes will be scanning the blue horizon ... fishing and boating dreams on your mind as you fill that tank :D

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 16, 2018, 11:21:09 AM
Next time I will pass on using leaving the stainless brads in the outer layer of the splash rails, the brad nailer leaves a wide chisel bit hole so still needed to use a nail set to set deeper after final sanding and this caused more damage to repair. 


Its easier to use a scrap piece of plywood to install the brad and pull the brads, I will say that the stainless brads are much easier to pull.  The cheap brads I resorted to heating the heads with a small solder torch before  pulling because some were breaking off and that was a bitch  to remove the broken ones....  Drill around the brad, use needle nose pliers and vice grips to squeeze the needle nose pliers and heat...



 Onto the Auxillary Spray rails,  I know they start at the front and go not sure how far back, I know Dave from Homer ran his all the way back but I can find anything specific on how far back.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 16, 2018, 02:26:53 PM
Construction manual part 1 of 2, page 110:

"c. All Models (all lengths): The auxiliary spray rails are 12 feet long and are mounted along the chine (see full-size images in Appendix A) starting at about 3Ē aft of the bow (approx.) "


That said, you can go longer if you want.  I wouldn't go shorter though, since these really help keep spray down near the water surface where it belongs.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 16, 2018, 02:30:40 PM
Thanks for sharing the details on those brads:

1. Use the good stainless ones since they pull out easier

2. Shoot them through a piece of scrap ply so you can pull the ply (w/brads) off together and leave minimal damage / holes that you have to fill


I've had to dig out cheap screws in the same way, once they break off - I decided then and there that using quality screws, even if they are going to be removed, is the only way to go.  Quality saves headaches... and extra work!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 17, 2018, 03:23:26 PM
Brian,

I see fillets on the fairbody strake and side strakes but do the spray rails get a fillet?

On the water side I made drawing of 1/2" and 1" radius: Probably overthinking again... 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 17, 2018, 04:12:47 PM
A fillet as shown is a great idea, including a thin one on top.  Bottom one directs spray away from the seam between the rail and hull, and the top one helps water run off the side with no 'temptations' (thin cracks between rail and hull that you missed and just love to suck up water and hold onto it)

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 19, 2018, 11:08:33 AM
I got a little more done, I ended up putting 1/4" shoes I cut from Ipe on the strakes.  I had to fill the nail holes before adding the shoe's and I used a syringe to fill the holes from the bottom up.  I used G-Flex for the strakes and the Ipe shoes.

Did I say the Strakes and spray rails are time consuming?
Not as much done as I wanted but here are some more pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 19, 2018, 03:08:04 PM
You can get lost in the detail work (ask me how I know!) .... sometimes it's worth it, and sometimes not.  The syringe trick for filling holes from the bottom up works great and it prevents trying to 'smash' epoxy into a hole that's full of air and doesn't want to take it.  Finish by over-filling the fill dimples with fairing compound mix, then when cured, use a carbide scraper to scrape them off smooth.  I don't know of a faster or easier way to finish filling holes....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 01, 2018, 11:50:20 AM
I love the internet!  Found a great way to remove broken screws, 5 of them broke off 1/4" down in the hole of my spray rails.  Its a roll pin just hammer it onto the broken screw:

                 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 01, 2018, 12:58:36 PM
Wow ... that's a great idea!  I've never heard of it before ... all I've seen is "drill holes all around the broken screw and dig it out or use needle nose pliars".  The rol pin is WAY neater and cleaner, WAY less damage to fill... nice :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 01, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
The process for me, I had used a countersink drill to install the #6 screws and on broken ones I enlarge the hole a little down to the broken off screw (used 1/4" drill for the 3/16 roll pin clearance) and took a 1/16" drill bit and drilled maybe 4 holes next to the broken screw to allow the roll pin to be hammered down a bit.  since the screws were set in epoxy I used a micro torch flame in the end of the roll pin which directs the flame right down the screw head only and slowly twist, if it slips just hit a couple more times to get a good grip.  In softer wood like fir etc I don't think you would need to drill around the base of the broken screw but meranti or harder wood I would.

Get several roll pins as they only work on 2-3 before losing the grip.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: tom eastgard on March 15, 2018, 08:49:35 PM
Has anyone tried using those Raptor plastic nails?   Raptor says, "composite staples, nails, and specialty fasteners can be cut and sanded without damaging router bits, saw blades and sanding belts, and provide complete corrosion resistance."

On my jumbo, i've left the screws in the rails, but they were silicon bronze and are buried but even if they do get wet, I'm not worried.  Having said that I think I'd use those plastic "nails" in a lot of places mostly for keeping things in the correct position while the epoxy cures, but then feel comfortable just leaving them in.

te
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 16, 2018, 06:41:46 AM
Has anyone tried using those Raptor plastic nails?   Raptor says, "composite staples, nails, and specialty fasteners can be cut and sanded without damaging router bits, saw blades and sanding belts, and provide complete corrosion resistance."

On my jumbo, i've left the screws in the rails, but they were silicon bronze and are buried but even if they do get wet, I'm not worried.  Having said that I think I'd use those plastic "nails" in a lot of places mostly for keeping things in the correct position while the epoxy cures, but then feel comfortable just leaving them in.

te

I never heard of those composite nails before ... but their website sounds promising.  They are strong, are made from fiberglass-impregnated plastic, and like those vinyl coated construction 'sinkers' (16 penny nails), they melt a tad when driven in and 'glue' themselves in.  They should have great holding power.  And it looks like Raptor sells them in finishing nails that go into standard nailers too.  I say, why not?  I don't know how much they cost, but who cares?  You wouldn't use enough in a Great Alaskan to have to worry about cost...

Raptor Nails and Staples (http://raptornails.com/)

If you go to their Brad Nails page (drill down from the link above), they actually have more than one picture of a boat getting assembled with these.... welcome to the modern world!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 16, 2018, 05:32:00 PM
They sound great, just need a special nailer to use them.

https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/# (https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/#)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: kennneee on March 16, 2018, 10:32:54 PM
I have used the composite brads and staples and they are great.  I did the Ashcroft planking on my Outerbanks 26 with the composite staples and use the brads all of the time to hold things together while gluing, etc.  Love them.  Redhawk also makes them and they are available from Duckworks in Port Townsend.  I bought a pnuematic Redhawk staple gun which has worked pretty well.  I use my 18 gauge Makita nail gun for the composite brads and it works perfectly.  Haven't tried the heavier nails but imagine they would work fine.  Nice to drive fasteners that don't have to be removed and won't corrode.  They sand really well.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 20, 2018, 08:46:29 AM
They sound great, just need a special nailer to use them.

https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/# (https://ancofastenersales.com/brands/raptor/#)

What Raptor says at the bottom of the link above:

"COMPATIBILITY WARNING FOR COMPOSITE PLASTIC STAPLES AND NAILS
Due to operating pressures and other factors, plastic Raptor nails and staples must be used with tools designed specifically for them."

Looks like their nailers run a little over $300, but the staplers are a little cheaper

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 22, 2018, 01:38:03 PM
Brian,

Ready to epoxy the bottom, I am probably going with the epoxy graphite treatment, Do I put the 3 sealing coats on then the epoxy/graphite?   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 22, 2018, 02:01:39 PM
Brian,

Ready to epoxy the bottom, I am probably going with the epoxy graphite treatment, Do I put the 3 sealing coats on then the epoxy/graphite?   

The way that I like to do it is to finish fairing the boat prior to final coats of epoxy ... that way, those final coats will self-level and hide a thousand sins (I like heavy paint too .... same reasons).  Then on the bottom area that will be graphited, assuming no finish or fill coats have been added since fiberglassing, sand lightly with 100-grit or so, to smooth out the epoxy ... but stop short of digging into the fiberglass weave.  You can tell when you're getting close just by looking and feeling.  Put on the first finish / fill coat.  Sand and coat again, but sand just enough to smooth it out and not clear to the glass.  That's the second coat.  By now you have a feel for how much each coat is smoothing out the last, so you can decide if you need another coat or not.  Those that use 12-oz glass instead of 10-oz glass on the boat bottom will need extra fill.  The bottom should be smooth before you put the graphite coat on, regardless.  The graphite coat should level out very glossy and smooth ... if not, then let it cure, lightly sand, and add another coat.  The total finish coats on the bottom, including graphite, should be about 3, depending on results (might need 4).

IF you are putting TWO layers of glass on the boat bottom, add the 2nd layer of glass after the first coat's first fill coat, then proceed as above ... fairing after the 2nd glassing again of course.  Two layers, with fill coats and epoxy, creates about a 1/8" thick tough-as-nails bottom treatment.  Don't worry about weight ... this is a big boat and it won't notice!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 03, 2018, 01:33:15 PM
Looking for 316 bow eyes,  I believe I need at least 6"  thread and they are tough to find that long.  I did find some 5/8" by 8" 316 which I know is overkill but may have to just because.  Wish I could find 3/8" x 8"

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 04, 2018, 03:23:35 PM
Looking for 316 bow eyes,  I believe I need at least 6"  thread and they are tough to find that long.  I did find some 5/8" by 8" 316 which I know is overkill but may have to just because.  Wish I could find 3/8" x 8"

Are you looking for U-bolt type, or are you OK with the eye-bolt type?  The 316 U-bolts are expensive and one that has 6" shanks or longer is going to be well over $100 and probably not much of a market for them (which means they might not even exist), and since most are designed for clamping down pipes ... their diameter can get crazy on the longer ones.  You can usually find the eye-bolt types with longer shanks than the U-bolt types though.  I would check either Hamilton Marine or Seattle Marine (hamiltonmarine.com or seamar.com).  Perhaps you can find some all-thread in 316 that has the same threads as an available (but too-short) 316 U-bolt, then use a 316 threaded coupler to extend the shanks.  I think if the coupler was buried and epoxied in an oversize hole, that you'd never know it was there.  Just an idea.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 05, 2018, 11:14:04 PM
Last of the fill coats on the bottom are done., I used a old carpet cleaner for final cleaning, wish I had used this before.  30 year old "Green Machine"  made cleaning a breeze.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on April 06, 2018, 06:37:13 AM
 I bet that feels good.  When do you flip?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 06, 2018, 07:25:40 AM
Well if it wasn't for Turkey Hunting it would be sooner.  I will be gone this weekend setting up our spot and hunting Turkey next weekend...
When I get back I will do the final sand and hopefully only 2 coats of graphite/epoxy.
Short answer, by the 28th. Then Shrimping starts on the 5th of May so another small bump in my build.  Either way I am soo looking forward to the flip.

Thank you for all your help along the way! 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 09, 2018, 01:53:48 PM
Brian,

That will work for me!  Great idea:

 
Quote
Perhaps you can find some all-thread in 316 that has the same threads as an available (but too-short) 316 U-bolt, then use a 316 threaded coupler to extend the shanks.  I think if the coupler was buried and epoxied in an oversize hole, that you'd never know it was there.  Just an idea.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 09, 2018, 01:57:36 PM
And for anyone else that needs one, Amazon.com :





Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 10, 2018, 07:13:17 AM
Man ... the boat looks perfect!  Good info (and prices) on the bow-eyes.  I do prefer the U-bolt type since they don't bend or twist under load....

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 10, 2018, 07:59:36 AM
Thank you, I am looking forward to flipping soon.  And I am not going with white graphite, scared of it but I am giving the graphite with titanium dioxide and milled carbon fibre a try, I will do a small test sample and see how it looks before committing.
Oh, I did find 316 coupling nuts:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 10, 2018, 09:54:20 AM
Nice ... where'd you find those couplers?

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 10, 2018, 10:32:04 AM
Ebay!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 11, 2018, 03:25:52 PM
Ebay!

But of course!

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 11, 2018, 03:44:23 PM
Brian,

Thinking ahead about the "limbers", the manual says all bulkheads limbered to drain aft to the bilge area except for the fuel tank compartment.  How does water flow around the fuel tank?

I believe any water from anchor / windlace locker will drain into the hull and travel aft until it hits the bulkhead for the fuel tank, then what?

   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 12, 2018, 08:38:19 AM
Thinking ahead about the "limbers", the manual says all bulkheads limbered to drain aft to the bilge area except for the fuel tank compartment.  How does water flow around the fuel tank?

I believe any water from anchor / windlace locker will drain into the hull and travel aft until it hits the bulkhead for the fuel tank, then what?

Hey ... good question and great illustration!  I should make this more clear in the manual.

Ok, so first ... why keep water away from fuel tanks?  Well, perhaps I didn't make my 'aluminum tank' assumption clear!  You really want to avoid standing water in or on or around aluminum tanks.  That includes water that is 'trapped by capillary action' between two surfaces, one of which is your aluminum tank.  This will absolutely eventually cause tank failure / leaking.  My aluminum tank assumption is based on the idea that while you can find off-the-shelf tanks for the aft belly tank, the forward belly tank span will likely be a custom tank, e.g. welded aluminum.  This is because the forward end of the tank is going to be shallower than the aft end of the tank and I doubt you can build a tank (reliably) with something like poly welding and plastic etc.  Using an off-the-shelf tank for the forward position will likely limit your fuel capacity.  Some people choose to paint the aluminum tanks with something like Zinc Chromate Primer by Moeller (https://www.amazon.com/MOELLER-MFG-COMPANY-INC-CHROMATE/dp/B000N8LR24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523543368&sr=8-1&keywords=zinc+chromate+primer) and then with a good submersible-grade non-ablative paint ('hard bottom paint') before installation of the tank.  This will add a LOT of relatively cheap and easy insurance that'll help guarantee a good long life for aluminum tanks.  Combine that with preventative measures such as allowing for drainage out from under tanks and for preventing water collection on the surface of the tank, and you're in like Flynn.... be proud!

Alright, so much for homework ... back to the under-deck drainage questions.  First, I do recommend that you CAN drain water through the fuel tank compartments but you should do so only if a) you can plug the limbers to prevent it (boat plugs and 15/16" round limbers), and b) you have provided some sort of access and/or ventilation that'll help dry out even the capillary-action trapped water that might be in the tank compartments somewhere.  Easier done that said.  For this reason, even without limbers into the fuel tank compartments, I suggest always providing good ventilation - even if only used when the boat is in dry storage.

Another approach is to block water from the fuel compartments and just sponge out whatever collects outside the bulkheads.  Or, provide ventilation together with f'w'd bilge pumps to move water out of those areas where it can be trapped ... either to an area that *does* drain, or over the side.  Thinking ahead and providing access is key.  On one boat that I had, the 'access' was a small deck plate and I could 'just barely' fit a Shop Vac hose down in there to suck out the water that collected, and then I'd duct tape a cloth on a broomstick to reach in and 'sponge out' the remaining bits of water.  When you build your own boat, you can do better than that, right?  :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 30, 2018, 02:33:10 PM
Brian,
I finished up the bottom graphite coating, I made 12oz batches adding 2 oz each of graphite and milled carbon fiber and a couple teaspoons of fumed silica, I applied 3 coats.  Then I sanded down with #320, #600 & #800 to a smooth chalkboard type finish.  Its feels really smooth and has a nice sheen.  I am ready to flip just need to move some stuff around in preparation.  Off shrimping next weekend so if I cant get it flipped this week it will be when I get back.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 01, 2018, 06:40:20 AM
Looking really good!  I like the idea of sanding down to finer grits like that, and the resulting chalkboard type finish.  It looks great!

Is your boat 28 feet PLUS the bracket-ish extension on the stern, or is that INCLUDING the extension?

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 01, 2018, 07:35:39 AM
Brian,

Its 28' including the extension which isn't really an extension rather a low profile transom.   ;D
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 01, 2018, 08:10:39 AM
Brian,

Its 28' including the extension which isn't really an extension rather a low profile transom.   ;D

Got it.  I forget ... it's been awhile.  Is there a swim step type platform on the 'low profile transom not-an-extension :D '?

Thx,
Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Dudley on May 01, 2018, 10:54:43 AM
Dear Bob,
Thanks for explaining such great work with the pictures. I have purchased the plans recently and will start building the GA in Istanbul. One picture is equal to thousand words. Because I also have language barier on boat building idioms, I have been able to understand the most of the process. Also you are doing it almost what I am planning to do with a minor difference. I am planning to build the boat 330-9/16". This is the maximum length I can get by using the local plywood length in optimum placement with the scarfing. After understanding the full concept I will do a solidworks drawing so to double check everything. I am planning to add same type of swimplatform (transom hang?) where we can install double outboard and utilise for swimming. I am looking forward to see how you will tackle the entrance from the transom.
Good luck on your work,
Sacit
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 01, 2018, 10:59:37 PM
Sacit,

Thank you for the kind words, I look forward to your build. 

Tonight I built the cradles to support the boat after the flip, just as Brian shows in the manual.  My jig is on casters and my plan is to flip the jig also and mount the casters on the 6"x6" legs that are flush to the top of the jig so it will be pretty low and still be able to move around if necessary.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 01, 2018, 11:02:31 PM
Actually it will sit a little lower than I though since the legs are not quite flush to the top of the jig:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 03, 2018, 06:49:25 PM
I flipped it today!  Here are some pics, I am super happy...  Just me and my wife and grand daughter.   I do have a short video but I am in a big darn hurry to go shrimping.  Enjoy:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on May 03, 2018, 09:15:17 PM
Somehow?  That has to be cheating!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 04, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
Congratulations on your flip!!!  It's BIG, isn't it?  :)

I like that statement ... "Just me, my wife, and granddaughter .... and a BACKHOE!!!!".  LOL....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 16, 2018, 08:04:18 PM
Brian,
Is 2" fillet big enough for the stringers?  I know the manual says 3" on the transom.

I have the inside all sanded and cleaned up, just have lots of little holes to fill and start the fillets on stringers and chines and bow stem. 

I built a stairway to access the boat, hard to climb up and down without it...



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 17, 2018, 05:18:55 AM
Yes ... using a 2" PVC pipe (or other form) for the stringer's fillets is fine.  The transom corners get special treatment due to the concentration of forces at the that occur as the boat flexes (think 'hinge').... and I've seen them crack on some boats (but never on a Great Alaskan!).  That's why I recommend large fillets, glass-fiber impregnated epoxy mix for the fillets, and a good solid glass treatment on transom corners.  The stringers do not suffer from this same effect when the boat flexes.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Dudley on May 29, 2018, 06:31:29 AM
Bob, your main stringers looks like they are higher than the dimensions at the plans. Is it true or am I judging it wrong from the picture?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 31, 2018, 07:57:56 AM
You are correct, 4" higher in main cabin and aft.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Dudley on June 04, 2018, 03:53:03 AM
Is there a specific reason for that which I have to take into consideration?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 04, 2018, 08:40:50 PM
The reason for raising the deck is simply to insure the deck drains overboard via scuppers without using the bilge. Fish blood and scales are extremely hard on a bilge pump.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Dudley on June 05, 2018, 01:34:45 AM
Thanks for the information. That is a great idea to take into consideration.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 05, 2018, 05:06:33 AM
Thanks for the information. That is a great idea to take into consideration.

Note that some people even take it a step further and they have added a little crown to the deck (centerline 1/2" higher than outboard edges of the cockpit deck), and / or have added a little slope (f'w'd higher than stern end of cockpit deck by an inch).  These things help the water drain in the correct direction, towards the scuppers.  When the boat is done, you will not be able to spot the crown and slope ... the deck will look flat and will seem perfectly flat as you walk around on it.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 05, 2018, 05:08:02 AM

Dudley ... How's your progress otherwise?  Do you have a place to build?  Have you made any sawdust yet?  Just curious ... it looks like you're cranking right along on the project ... it'll be fun to see your boat getting built :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Dudley on June 06, 2018, 05:14:53 AM
I have almost finished all the drawings in AutoCad format for the construction manual 1, excluding the transom. The reason I have not done the transom is because I want to change it completely. So, if I get enough time I will model it on SolidWorks in 3D within next week. And than I will do all the changes that I want on the model. When I feel happy about the changes, I will rework it on AutoCad so that I can cut it on my Multicam CNC with local plywood sizes. I don't have a space problem and have more than enough sawdust etc. Hope to start building towards the end of July, if I can get any spare time left on the CNC from my standard production. I have to do the heavy epoxy jobs before the end of Autumn.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 06, 2018, 06:39:58 AM
Awesome!  Looking forward to seeing pictures.  It's going to be a great boat, I'm sure ... like the sailboat that you built :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 11, 2018, 01:15:43 PM
Almost done with fillets and taping, chines and bow stem are done and one more side of a stringer than on to the bulkheads, crash chamber etc.


I am going with a anchor windlass so will be closing in the top of the anchor well.  Not sure if 1/2" ply is enough so may double that up.


more pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 11, 2018, 01:37:32 PM

Yeah ... you're kind of in a stage that ends up time consuming without the work accomplished being super obvious yet.  The bulkheads and house will be more exciting :)

Brian

PS: Your work's looking great!  Nice, neat, professional!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 12, 2018, 10:40:09 AM
Brian,

Once the sheer deck in installed, what is the glassing schedule? 

Quote
Note that not
until the aft pieces are in place will you go back and round over the gunnels and
glass the sheer decking.
   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 12, 2018, 06:49:06 PM
Brian,

Once the sheer deck in installed, what is the glassing schedule? 

Quote
Note that not
until the aft pieces are in place will you go back and round over the gunnels and
glass the sheer decking.
   

For any deck that you'll be walking on, use 10-oz woven (and 9.xx ounce is OK too).  No need to go to 12 and 6 is too light.  No need for biax, but some people like it since it lays over the edge smoother ... but if you do that, go light and put a light layer of woven over it, wet on wet.  For example, 6-oz biax plus 6-oz woven, wet-on-wet so the 2nd layer will smooth out the yarn on the biax .... this'll save you work when it comes to fairing.  You want the woven to extend beyond the biax by an inch.  OR .... K.I.S.S. and just put the 10 ounce on, make sure you give the side-to-sheer deck corner a good round edge so the glass will lay smooth.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 12, 2018, 07:33:00 PM
Simple it is, a little ways down the road but always thinking ahead.

I just finished the the remaining side of the stringer so on to some sheer decks and the crash chamber.

Thank you!

Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 16, 2018, 08:17:35 AM
RBOB,
I used 1/2 inch marine ply for the deck over the anchor well. And it is more than adequate. The cuddy roof is 1/4Ē and it gives a bit. I think if I were to do it again I would possibly go 3/8 for the cuddy roof. You donít get up on the cuddy a lot, or maybe that is just me. But after adding the railing I am sure that will change...sneaking up on albies and casting jigs is in my future!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 16, 2018, 08:48:21 AM
Cannon,

Hope to see some pics of your albies soon, I love tuna fishing.  I have been out only 4-5 times wit my 22' Raider and had a blast when the weather cooperated.  Best was flat calm and 35mph for 1 1/2 hr run, another time we ran 2 1/2hrs at 12mph and gave up.  Hopefully I will be ready next summer but I know there is a lot to do.

I will be adding a similar railing,  not as nimble or brave as I used to be.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 16, 2018, 08:57:25 AM
Brian,

On the center of gravity, not sure how this changes when adding a motor and a kicker.  I have your calcs and I assume it is a bare hull with a cabin or maybe without a cabin.  My fuel tank I will install slightly behind center of gravity If that is the best.

Is it possible to figure center of gravity with a motor and kicker weight in the calculation?

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 16, 2018, 12:56:31 PM

You'll find that the boat is forgiving of where the CG lands.  If you aim for having the CG of the fuel tanks just behind the aft pilot house bulkhead or so, your usual array of motors will work fine.  For building an open house-less version of the boat, that's new territory and I suggest building the hull and decks, following the drawing for center console framing, then use sand bags to represent various items (motors, fuel, people, gear, any other tankage, any batteries and appliances etc) and then move them around until you've got the bow trimming 1 to 1-1/2 inches high versus the stern.  Use an angle measurer (below) or a bevel and level to take an approximate angle off the deck and then apply a bit of trigonometry to figure out the trim... I can help with that.  I'd calculate the upslope angle right now but am headed off to the Home Despot....

Magnetic Protractor (https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-700-Magnetic/dp/B00004T807/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1529175337&sr=8-5&keywords=magnetic+protractor)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 18, 2018, 10:09:11 PM
A little more progress, I made the collision chamber bulkhead and glassed the inside face and will install tomorrow:

I tried the tick stick but seemed like way too much work so I went with your tried and true method with door skin and traced the perimeter with a pencil compass.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 19, 2018, 05:21:44 AM
Looking good!  Have you tried the sander method for trimming glass off the edges of the plywood?  On anything that's going to end up in a seam or under epoxy, you just take a random orbital w/80-grit on it and run it around the edge of the plywood, holding the sander a about 45 degrees.  Peels the excess right off!

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 21, 2018, 01:07:31 PM
Yes that sander works great.  I have the collision chamber bulkhead installed, fillets and taped exterior seam with drain plug..  I have fit the tops and have to glue them down. 

You are right, lots of work without a lot of progress showing...

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on June 21, 2018, 06:34:51 PM
Looks good! This is the stage where it seems ninety percent of the work is. Not really, but it sure seems that way! This phase is probably the most important, because you determine how everything that goes below deck will fit and still give you the ability to change and upgrade your wiring and hoses.
It seems to go on forever, but you are almost there! Keep at it and soon it is Big Blue!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 21, 2018, 08:21:50 PM
Thanks Cannon,

Yes the thinking stage begins, thinking about the windlass, and the bulkheads for the anchor locker, aft cuddy and pilot house. 
I have my windlass and bow roller and 500' of rode, almost 2k in anchor stuff!

I am going to make my anchor well bulkhead sit all the way down on the crash chamber for plenty of drop for the vertical windlass, should be plenty.

Making the flush sheer deck tomorrow which got me thinking about the pulpit.  I am not sure how far to extend it, I may incorporate the sheer deck as part of the pulpit support with 3/4" plywood laminated on the underside on the extension part of it, what do you think?

I did get more done today, I cut out and added blocking for a 6" inspection hatch and glassed it at the same time while installing the crash chamber tops.  The bottom side of the crash chamber and support is glassed with 6oz and 2 coats of epoxy prior to install.

Some pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 22, 2018, 08:31:15 AM
... Looking forward, how do you plan on painting the interior?  Do you have a good air compressor that has enough flow to drive an HVLP any-position type 'detail gun'?  Every time that I paint something detailed like the interior of a boat, I always wished for one ... but I've been too cheap to buy one.

Brian

PS: Progress is looking great!  As for all that thinking ... well, this is where the boat becomes YOUR CUSTOM BOAT ... not some float-tel designed to please Mr. AverageKnowNothing.  Enjoy the journey and don't worry too much about the clock....

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 22, 2018, 08:59:37 PM
I have not thought that far out yet, but I do have HVLP guns and a 5hp 2-stage Ingersol Rand and my shop is setup with correct air line runs, up to rafters and slight fall 50' to air dryer and back across the whole shop with airlines t'eed off the top of the lines and drop down to wall mounted couplings / hose reels.  No moisture at all!

I could always take it to my work and do it there on the weekend but it would not fit in the paint booth anyway so it would have to be a makeshift extension on the paint booth so... I have years experience painting cars and the boat is a lot bigger but that is what pressure pots are for.

  I finished taping the collision chamber and going to set the anchor well bulkhead on top of the crash chamber,

Directions say 1/4" but this will be quite a bit taller so you think I should step up to 3/8" for anchor well bulkhead?  Its about 36" tall so 1/4" might be too thin..

Going to have to put in a drain for the anchor locker to the bilge, too low to drain out the side now.


 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 24, 2018, 07:43:23 AM

On painting, I figure that if you make it easier to do, then you'll likely do a better job.  I think a quality detail gun is worth owning and it sounds like you've got the perfect setup for it.  Just paint before putting windows in so you can drag the hose in from any direction  you want.

On your tall aft anchor well 'bulkhead', yeah, I think I'd go with 3/8".  As for draining the anchor well, I'm not a fan of adding water to the bilge, especially if you've got aluminum belly tanks ... but alternatives would either mean piping (hose or PVC?) it to the stern bilge or letting it drain outside the sides of the boat and use plugs when underway?   Dunno... lots of ways to skin the cat.  I doubt you'll want to sponge it out all the time, so some type of natural draining would be good.  Same goes for ventilation to dry the anchor rode.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 27, 2018, 12:36:19 AM
Modifications adds a ton of time to the build!  I will figure out the ventilation for the  anchor locker so it will dry out.

How much water do you think can come in thru the windlass?  Dumb question considering if I let out 200' of rope it will be wet when it comes in.  Maybe draining into the bilge will be my only option.

 

   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 27, 2018, 07:13:06 AM
Modifications adds a ton of time to the build!  I will figure out the ventilation for the  anchor locker so it will dry out.

How much water do you think can come in thru the windlass?  Dumb question considering if I let out 200' of rope it will be wet when it comes in.  Maybe draining into the bilge will be my only option.   

Another option is to put a small bilge pump inside the crash chamber and let the wet anchor line drip into that (open it and sponge it out after you're back and the boat is back home).  Even if you filled the whole chamber to the brim, the boat will carry the bow weight no problem, but give thought to how you can close the opening if you need to.  There is no serious source of water on top of a flush (or arched) bow deck ... spray, rain.  It's good to close it off if you're leaving the boat unattended for weeks at a time.  But you won't see any waves making it over that bow - very rare if it ever occurs. Hmm... as for the bilge pump, you could even build a small bilge pump chamber at the top of the crash chamber that the anchor rode chamber can drip into ... that would shorten the rise from the pump to the drain (out the side of the boat up higher).  Just thinking out loud here ... there's always a solution.  You just have to pick one and get with it, done!

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 16, 2018, 12:31:21 PM
I have made some more progress.  Cuddy sole installed, rear cuddy bulkhead, Flush anchor well deck installed, fuel tank supports and fuel tank floor installed. sheer decks fitted.

On the anchor well drain, I may put in a shower sump/with pump assembly, I may mount under cuddy bunk still got to look at that more. 

Pics:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on July 17, 2018, 06:41:55 AM
Looking good.  Will you be adding any reinforcements to the anchor pulpit?  Is your gas tank a off the shelf model?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 17, 2018, 09:09:42 AM
The anchor pulpit will be 1.5" thick, I will laminate to the underside with some type of support, I don't know how to carve a mermaid so have to be pretty basic support.  The tank is a off the shelf Moeller:  90 Gallon Marine Fuel Tank XLPE
Part Number: MOE-FT9002BR

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 04, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
Brian,

I raised my sides 4" and now that I installed the aft cuddy bulkhead it I am pretty sure I was supposed to add 4" to the bulkhead.  It looks low to me compared to the front cuddy bulkhead.  I could just add 4" but (but not sure it was raised 4"  =/-

Is there a measurement for the side ?

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 04, 2018, 02:07:57 PM
Might as well update,  some progress made.  I built the aft cuddy bulkhead.  Once the bulkhead fit I traced the doubler and screwed it together and gve it a test fit,  it went in easy so I glued them together before installing, that went easy.

Now you see my dilemma, need to raise it up.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 11, 2018, 07:06:09 AM

Interesting dilemma!  You raised the sides 4" (more or less)?  The cuddy roof can be raised, left where it was, or you can pick somewhere between according to how the boat looks to you and how much headroom you want inside the cuddy, e.g. you've got to be able to sit upright on a bunk ... at least on the aft end.

That said, the vertical height that you circled in red (above) is about 14".  Your dilemma is due to not increasing the height of the aft cuddy bulkhead the same amount that the hull sides were raised, but the f'w'd cuddy bulkhead was ... because it mounts at the height of the sheer deck.  Fortunately, it's all easy enough to fix.

If it were me, I'd sit in the cuddy and decide on whether I want the extra headroom as described by the top of the f'w'd cuddy bulkhead, or if the headroom is OK if you left the aft cuddy bulkhead's roof height the same.   Then I'd stand outside the boat and look at it ... would it look OK to leave the aft bulkhead the way it is and then to reduce (cut down) the height of the forward bulkhead?  Or maybe it looks better if you raise the aft bulkhead's roof arch high enough to match the forward one?  You can make a cardboard (or hardboard) template that clamps or screws to the aft cuddy bulkhead and draw your roof and side lines on that, then trace the top of the existing aft cuddy bulkhead onto it.  Then cut out the top extension an glue it on, clamping or screwing straight edges on the face so it matches the existing bulkhead.  Glass the seam with light glass (6-oz) or so and fair it in ... when it's painted, nobody will ever know.  Note that if you raise the roof on the aft cuddy bulkhead, that you'll likely want to make the door opening taller too.

Anyway ... The options are up to you and it comes down to aesthetics and headroom decisions.  Personally, I like the look of a taller hull versus a shorter-looking house and cuddy.  It just looks more seaworthy to me, especially if combined with a tall coaming around the cockpit.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 11, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
Yes an easy fix, cut it off and made another piece and glue it back on, also raised the curb 4".  I will have to adjust the aft cabin bulkhead the same 4".

When I added height to the stringers I had no idea where the bulkhead would be and just filled in 19" to meet the bulkhead.

Working on the bunks and bunk tops  in the meantime.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 12, 2018, 09:20:31 AM

Nice!  You do quick AND good work!  Glad it all worked out!  I'm anxious to see how it all turns out when it's done.  Have you been dreaming up color schemes and trim ideas yet?

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 14, 2018, 10:57:34 AM
Cant go wrong with white with color accents. 

My favorite way to glue in place is to use a hot glue gun to put alignment tabs and drop in the bulkheads or bunk supports in this case.  I have been using System Three Gel Magic to glue several spots on the installed panel. It sets up pretty quick compared to thickened epoxy then knock off the wooden tabs and put down the fillets followed by the 4" glass where required.

This pic is looking down onto the floor of the cuddy with tabs installed for bunk supports.


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 04, 2018, 04:23:52 PM
Brian,

I glued the 1/4" cuddy roof down last night, glassed it on the inside with 10oz.  I used Alaska Yellow Cedar for the supports.  The wood strips on top (pics below) are temporary nailers I used with the stainless 316 1" brads to hold the roof's outer edge into place.  I used 6 washer head screws on the center supports, pre-drilled for easy alignment when installing.

I have used a little bit of all of your designs, front cuddy bulkhead from Rockport, windshield from Newport and roof from Prince Rupert. 

I hope you are ok with these changes, I like all of them!




 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 05, 2018, 08:12:49 AM
Yup ... mix and match all 3 designs to your heart's content!

Is that opening above the cuddy door for cuddy ventilation?  I haven't seen that before, but I like it.  The cuddy roof took on a very nice curve - better than the last one that I put on (which ended up with some concavity between supports ... had to fill and fair).

Have you thought about where you'll get wiring (for lights or powered ventilation) into the cuddy?

Love the progress ... you're cranking it out!  Winter is coming soon ... are you planning on launching mid-winter or will you launch next Spring?

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 05, 2018, 08:45:42 AM
Brian,

That opening was my 2nd mistake on the bulkhead height, it will be cut out for door opening and/or back for easier cuddy access. 

When I test fit the roof it did have that concavity, then I put in the framing for the hatch (used the roof template for the arc) and the concavity did not happen.

I have tought about the ventilation, still not decided 100% but the Beckson Vent-O-Mate has my attention. I may install in the roof behind the visor just have to think on how to connect it.   Not so much on the wiring, but probably under the shelf or under the cuddy bunks to the windlass and along the roof supports for lighting.

https://beckson.com/vent2.html (https://beckson.com/vent2.html)

Launching?  I am shooting for next summer, hopefully early enough to enjoy it...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 05, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
You'll need holes through the aft cuddy bulkhead for wiring - I like to put them right under the sheer deck.

I've never used, but have heard lots of good things about the Vent-O-Mate.  They're silent too.  And since the draw air OUT, it doesn't create a cold draft.  The air comes in more gently through the cuddy door. 

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 08, 2018, 09:14:19 PM
I installed the windshield doubler and trimmed out a couple pieces of 1/2" to add to the pulpit.

Does biaxial glass between the layers on pulpit add support?  Not sure if I need to put some type of brace or mermaid underneath.

More progress pics:

 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on September 09, 2018, 07:58:16 AM
Referring to the attachment....

The direction of force on the pulpit is up and down (curved arrow).  If you want to use glass between layers (or right on top) to strengthen it, noting that fiberglass has very high tensile strength in the direction of the  yarn, you'd want to orient the glass so that the yarn runs fore/aft.  Biaxial is fine, but there isn't much twisting force on the pulpit.  You could go either way.

For your pulpit, I'd probably glass the top with some leftover 10-oz and orient the cloth so (half of) the yarn runs fore/aft... it'll give abrasion resistance as well and there's no need to introduce the extra fairing required by biax (unless between layers of wood, assembled while wet/soft or wet-on-wet under woven glass on top).

It's never a bad idea to put a knee underneath the pulpit as well.  The worst and highest forces will occur in a downward direction on the pulpit while anchored, e.g. a caught anchor and a big wave lifting the boat.  The knee will transfer loads to the stem and that's a good idea ... plus it looks cool :)

Looking good!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 09, 2018, 09:52:50 AM
Brian,
I like that support, I am going to use that.  Off to the shop going to get windshield panels and roof mockup done.

I been thinking (haha) I plan on using 1/2" for the windshield panels rather than 1/4" with 1/4" doubler, might be easier for me.

Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Cannon on September 09, 2018, 11:02:30 AM
Brian,
I like that support, I am going to use that.  Off to the shop going to get windshield panels and roof mockup done.

I been thinking (haha) I plan on using 1/2" for the windshield panels rather than 1/4" with 1/4" doubler, might be easier for me.

Bob
I used 1/2 inch for mine. Worked great!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 09, 2018, 09:12:11 PM
Cannon,

Do you mean 1/2" plywood on the deck or the pulpit is made out of 1/2" ?

I thought you had some kind of hardwood on top for pulpit, I like the look and if mine does not seem strong enough I will add something on top.

I did not get done what I wanted to, I have windshield skins mocked up and supports ready for the roof templates to mark the windshield skins but ran out of gas. 



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 09, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
Cannon,

Just re-read your post, I get it, you were referring to the windshield panel.

 ;D
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 14, 2018, 07:46:12 PM
Brian,

I am having trouble understanding the windshield panel overlap with the windshield doubler.  The manual shows 1/2" setback of the front edge of the windshield doubler and when mocking up the windshield panels is states to mark the cut off 1/4" outside the edge of the doubler.  Is this going to leave a 1/4" ledge?



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 15, 2018, 06:39:31 AM
Yes ... the 1/2" on the sides allows variation in side panel thickness, and if you use 1/4" side panels, it'll leave a stylin' 1/4" little ledge at the front end.  You want stylin', right?  LOL... You've got it dialed in, no problem.

Brian

PS: You're boat's looking great, BTW! 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 15, 2018, 07:52:03 AM
Thank you!

I took some time off, and just getting back on task.  Windshield panels are made, just have to install.  Little things like this makes me feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 15, 2018, 05:50:33 PM
Thank you!

I took some time off, and just getting back on task.  Windshield panels are made, just have to install.  Little things like this makes me feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a long project - good to take a break now and then.  You always know when to get back at it ... that's when you're ready.  It's worth it in the end and about 10 minutes after it hits the water, you'll forget the time that it took to build it!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on December 31, 2018, 09:25:22 PM
What is the distance from the transom to just inside the boat as this is drawn?  Iím looking to do something similar. Thanks
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on December 31, 2018, 09:43:13 PM
The deck is 24" ( I will check tomorrow) and the fish box is 16-18" which I have not made my mind up yet..  soon though.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 01, 2019, 12:06:59 PM
Just decided to make fish box 18" deep so from transom to inside edge is 42"
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on January 01, 2019, 05:15:37 PM
Thanks.  Still trying to decide which way to go
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 27, 2019, 10:24:50 PM
Time for an update.  Mostly done with all of the under-deck structure, finished all of the fillets and taping and need to put down couple fill coats and I will be installing the fuel tank then the start on the main deck. 

Glad that part is done!   Some pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 27, 2019, 11:03:55 PM
Wow!  You got a lot of work done!  Nice job on insetting those deck support pieces ... adds time to the project, but as they say ... if it's worth doing, then it's worth doing right!  Soon your decks will be in and you'll be working on the superstructure ... which I think is the funnest stage :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 28, 2019, 03:24:00 PM
Insetting those pieces was the easiest part, I rounded the support pieces with a router and cut a simple pattern out of 1/4" plywood, used a 1/2" strait bit with a 3/4" router bushing, clamped the template to the stringer.  It took maybe 15 seconds each.   


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on January 28, 2019, 08:00:20 PM
That is one sexy hatch!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on January 28, 2019, 08:08:31 PM
Yes sir, very $exy!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on January 29, 2019, 07:10:43 AM
I like the insetting better than using U-shaped doublers for support on the inside face of the stringers ... I hadn't thought of using a router, but insetting is DEFINITELY faster and easier than using U-shaped doublers ... good on ya!

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 03, 2019, 08:33:27 PM
I finished cutting and fitting the deck, and glassed backsides of all pieces. That was a marathon for one guy. 

Do I put 3 more coats of epoxy or count the glass / epoxy as coat 1?

I will move on to the fuel tank in between coats of epoxy. Do I need to close in (isolate) the fuel hose underdeck, pretty sure I must box it in all the way to the shelf.

On another note I ordered my engine, opted for a Mercury Seapro200, it is almost a year out for delivery and may be sooner just have to wait and see.

One more final sanding underdeck and paint the bilge, I am using ebond's 106 white polyamide coating.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 04, 2019, 07:04:23 AM

Wow!  Nice work!  Let me answer your questions one at a time:

1. Especially if you precoated the bottom-side of the plywood with epoxy prior to glassing, I recommend counting the epoxied fiberglass as the first of 3 coats of epoxy that the bottom side of the deck pieces get.  NOTE that right after this 'first coat' is when you want to seal ALL plywood edges of the deck.  This is only necessary for both deck pieces and the top edge of web stringers that are under the deck - you cannot built fillets that hide and seal up the unseen plywood edges, so you have to seal them very well prior to final installation and the building of fillets on the top side of the plywood.  OK?  I seal edges by first coating them with epoxy (a roller is great and fast for this, even though the edge is narrow) - adding more epoxy until the edges stay fairly shine.  Let cure, scrape drips off the plywood faces if you have them (carbide scraper) and sand the edges - vacuum and/or wipe them off well.  Mix a creamy-thick blend of silica and epoxy and use a putty knife to smear the silica mix into the edges of the plywood.  Use your gloved finger to lightly rub the mix into the end grain and let it cure.  Now finish those last coats of the epoxy, rolling it both onto the fiberglass and the edges.  This sealing works well because a) the initial coat wicks into the wood cells and mostly seals them, then b) the silica mixture smooths and seals the end grain nicely, then c) the final coats of epoxy fill and seal - putting the finish on.  Do this, and you'll never have deck rot.

2. You want to isolate the fuel components from the interior of the pilothouse and/or cuddy - the main issue being fuel fumes traveling around under-deck until they get to non-spark / spark-proof electrical devices that risk igniting the fuel fumes.  It's a safety issue.  In the open cockpit, this is not an issue, however.  Use double clamps on all connections and try to lay out your fill/vent/fuel lines so that it's easy to isolate them from inside the pilot house and cuddy.  Note that 'isolate' means under the deck too.  For example, if you have a belly tank that extends forward under the pilot house decking, then make sure it's sealed on the sides and forward end (but it's OK to have a drain plug through under-deck bulkheads as long as you keep them plugged unless necessary to temporarily take them out - say for cleaning).  Think through your routing of hoses and try to make it simple on yourself ... boxing-in can become overly complex sometimes.

3. A 200 hp motor is great ...



Keep the pix coming!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 05, 2019, 11:09:15 AM
I went out last night to put on a fill coat of epoxy and my shop is out of propane!  Shop is cold. I just trimmed all the glass around the edges and ran a scraper over one panel.  Epoxy was a little soft but not tacky.  Since I only have ebonds 1289 (slow) I did not want to use it when it is that cold.  No propane until Thursday.  Just a little setback, I will give it a cleaning and light sanding and start again.





Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 05, 2019, 11:49:09 AM
On the Fuel hose,  Is it ok to seal the fill hose (vent hose, fuel feed) where it passes thru the stringer with 5200?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 06, 2019, 03:13:47 PM
On the Fuel hose,  Is it ok to seal the fill hose (vent hose, fuel feed) where it passes thru the stringer with 5200?

I assume you mean using 5200 around the feed and vent lines where they pass through stringers, thereby sealing the inside edges of those holes .... the alternative being sealing the inside edges with epoxy first, then passing the lines through?  I think the 5200 is reliable enough for that, and it absorbs humidity and seals tighter when it's wet ... but personally, I'd think about fuel hose replacement in the future.  If you glue those lines in with 5200, then they're not coming back out again.  Replacement would mean drilling new holes or finding an alternative route.

Which stringers?  The main LVL stringers?  I'd probably drill over-size holes, then use a gloved finger to smear silica-thickened epoxy into the exposed edge grain in the hole.  If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that, but I'd seal the grain with epoxy first (the reason for using a slightly oversized hole).  You can also drill an oversize hole, completely fill with thickened epoxy, then drill the correctly sized hole for the lines after than ... just go through the center of the epoxy plug so you don't hit (expose) wood and you're good to go.  Works for motor mount bolt holes too (highly recommended for that)

Am I off track on what you're asking?

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 06, 2019, 05:32:21 PM
Yes, the gap.  You're right silicone would be better to remove, just thinking about any possible fumes.

Quote" If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that,"


 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on February 07, 2019, 06:08:07 AM
Yes, the gap.  You're right silicone would be better to remove, just thinking about any possible fumes.

Quote" If you want to fill the gap around the lines with something that'll let you remove it later, I think marine RTV (silicone) would work OK for that,"

Good thinking.  Just either prefill with epoxy and redrill or use a finger to smear silica-epoxy inside the holes to seal the edge grain.

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on February 23, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
Gees, I never dreamed adding an insulated fish box would take so long, but in the process I discovered (read the gougeon book) what I think is a better way to add supports for the floor.  Rather than use a router which was easy and fast its drawback is when you glue in the support, hard to keep the goop in there.

Using a fine tooth saw and a chisel & wood file was just probably faster, no jig just saw at an angle and clean out the pocket.  Measure the angle and cut the supports.  Love it and its was super easy to apply the goop and install.

I found some epdm ribbed weatherstrip that had 3m double-sided tape that hopefully will seal the fish box.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 28, 2019, 09:59:38 AM
Still working on the fish box, the lid took quite a bit of time for me.  I decided to insulate the lid, and being concerned over my BFF's standing on the lid I put in support.  I had ordered some FRP and did not use it so I put it to use.  Talk about overkill...

I have also put down 1/4" plywood over the foam, no pic yet.

I am closer to putting down the deck for good,  need to install flanges for access ports and one more sealing coat to go.



 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 28, 2019, 10:02:55 AM
I think that's the fanciest fish well lid that I've ever seen!  Gonna have to call you the Dado Dude!  'Have router ... will dado!'

bd
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 28, 2019, 10:35:41 AM
I need therapy!

Hello everyone my name is Dado Dude and I am addicted...  I have been overthinking, over building and using too much epoxy again.  LOL.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on March 28, 2019, 12:43:33 PM

LOL ... Well, if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right, right?  :D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on March 31, 2019, 06:53:52 PM
Brian,
One of the hatch lids I made has a slight warp (luckily not the insulated one), I tried putting weight on opposite corners overnight but it stayed the way it was..

 I wonder if putting it (warped lid) in the oven to 200 degrees to soften the epoxy and then put it on a flat surface with weight on it to correct it?  Any idea?

Made some progress, I put down 2 coats of polyamide coating on complete under deck, front hatch and fish box.  I made the backing for the access ports, glassed and 2 coats of epoxy on them.  I may order aluminum discs for access ports and have them anodized after I drill and test fit.  I even though about 1/2" plexiglass for access ports but not 100% sold on that idea.

My fuel tank is finally mounted, I filled it with water before I installed the brackets anticipating the tank growing but nothing seemed to change.  Now I need to get that water out of there.

Pics:


I want a flush deck so I am taking more time building 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on March 31, 2019, 10:32:09 PM
Wow.  Thatís really looking good. Whatís the plan for the area just aft of the cuddy
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 01, 2019, 07:21:55 AM

Ditto!  Looking great, Bob!

As for the warp issue?  I must say that warps that I've tried to correct always seem stronger than anything that I've tried when it comes to correcting them.  Perhaps your heat treatment would work, but if you do that, then I'd force the warp back beyond flat and would bias it towards being warped in the other direction while it cools ... I would expect some spring-back, so maybe a little preloading in the opposite direction may result in the warp returning to flat instead of having the original warp in it?  I'm curious to hear your results .... and in the back of your mind, if the warps bad enough, then sit in your moaning chair and think about building another one :(  :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 01, 2019, 09:15:07 AM
Maybe I will try a scrap piece in the oven first, see if I can put a slight warp in it.  I will find out if the resin sets up again.


Todd,  the front area is storage, life vests, bumpers etc.  I do not have the compartment divided but I may.

Back to work...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 11, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
I was going to order 3/8" thick aluminum discs (two 6" and one 10") for the access ports over the fuel tank and have them hard anodized but it would be over $200.  So I think I will lay up some leftover biaxial and make them close to 1/2" thick and use woven cloth on the outer layers.  I can drill and countersink and install with 4200 to make the seal.  or I could glass both sides of  1/2" plywood and drill the holes oversize / fill and redrill. 


I ordered fiberglass 3/4" tape for the exposed edges of plywood.  I coated the edges several times then let it cure to green tacky state and wetted up the tape and pressed it on.

Also drilled for the fuel fill, did it on a test piece first and still managed to do it wrong on the boat but that is what epoxy is for.



Pics:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 11, 2019, 01:56:02 PM
You're doing great work ... you boat will out-last you!

And yes, gotta love zero-volatiles non-shrinking marine epoxy .... better than wood!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 13, 2019, 09:27:24 AM
Took a day off from work, I finally got the sole down.  Pre-coated all supports, rolled on the final coat of epoxy on the bottom-side of floor panels. Put clamps on the pvc pipes that are my anchor well drains and hooked up all the fuel line connections, then commenced mixing and applying peanut butter mix to all the floor supports and installed the soles.

For the fuel tank mounts and the pvc clamps I used 1/4"x 1" 316 stainless machine screws, drilled 2-step hole wetout with pipe cleaner & epoxy then filled with epoxy & west 404 using syringe before installing coated screws. 

I have mixed emotions about this little bit of progress , joy and happiness! 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 14, 2019, 08:10:43 AM

Looking great!  One thing that I like about this boat is how much room there is under the deck, in spite of it NOT being a deep-V hull.  It's a pretty nice deal. 

So ... Being in Olympia, there are a lot of directions that you could go when the boat's done ... Puget Sound, Westport, Buoy 10, Columbia.... where do you expect to use the boat the most?  Are you going to do boat camping?  Go up SE Alaska?  There is TONS of good fishing in the Prince of Wales Island area ... and camping etc.  Easy shot for the boat that you will have :D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 14, 2019, 11:31:27 AM
Just cleaned it up,  getting ready to put down fillets and tape on the perimeter.  I was vacuuming and fell, foot went into one of the front hatches.  Decided to cover the holes, hard on a leg...

I have fished Westport a lot, Columbia River(and ocean side) Sekui, Neah Bay, San Juans for shrimping but I like going to LaPush the most so far.  I like Puget Sound but not much for fishing and crabbing is closed now, it used to be great.

Heading to SE Alaska is on my bucket list, I will have to check Prince of Whales Island.

Couple pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 14, 2019, 02:57:37 PM

...I almost fell off a house that my dad and I were building once ... a sheet of plywood was laying over the ceiling joists when we were installing rafters and was hanging over the end of the house by 18 inches.  Guess who walked out to the end of the plywood when not really paying attention and barely made it leaping back onto the supported end of the plywood?  I about pee'd myself with that little trick....


You've got the right boat for making the crossing to SE Alaska, and being able to live aboard while at it too ... that opens up whole new options on how and where to have a peaceful evening camping in the boat ... in comfort :)

Brian

PS: I used to fish Puget Sound nearly every weekend long ago ... doesn't surprise me that it's getting shut down though.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 14, 2019, 07:50:41 PM
Finished up with the fillets and had some time so I laminated the bow pulpit using some leftover biaxial.  My access ports for my fuel tank I originally wanted aluminum but seemed too pricey, not wanting to use plywood I layed up a pile of biaxial with woven on each side and used some cheap (pillow case from the dollar store) peel-ply but it was soo cheap I almost could not peel it off, used a heat gun to help release it. I call it stick-ply.

The access ports are 7/16" so I plan to just drill / countersink the holes and use silicone to seal it up.  Hopefully if I need to remove them I can get them out.  If you have any suggestions for that I am all ears.

Looks like my next project with be the aft cabin bulkhead.  I am

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 16, 2019, 10:12:19 AM
Tunnel vision,

I didn't see this coming,  my center fuel tank port is right under the rear bulkhead.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 16, 2019, 12:02:11 PM
If you ever want one of those high-speed (while on plane!) fish finding tranducers that work at speed, they mount on the bottom of the hull inside the boat and look through a fiberglass lay-up like you just made.  Really nice to see fish accurately while you're going fast.  The glass lay-up has to be bubble-free though, so most use vacuum bagging to help guarantee that:

 AirMar Transducers (https://www.thegpsstore.com/Airmar-M265C-LH-Chirp-In-Hull-Transducer-P3080.aspx)

Nothing to snag on the trailer or to get knocked off by debris in the water....

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 16, 2019, 05:07:07 PM
I would like one but I already have an Airmar 1000w B175C-12-H  Just have to cut a big hole in the bottom of my boat.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on April 16, 2019, 07:33:50 PM
Can you elaborate on the biax you laminated?  Iím interested in your plan.  Whatís the advantages?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 17, 2019, 10:14:51 AM
Todd,

I wanted flush hatches so I made them, not wanting to use plywood I just layed up a pile of leftover biaxial cloth I had. 
I had some left over 50" biaxial, cut it 12" x 24" When it cured remove peel ply and I layed a strait edge close to the edge and cut with skill saw, then to on tablesaw to do opposite side and used a tablesaw sled to do short sides.  I barely have enough to make my discs.  Going to use a router with a circle cutter jig thingy, pretty easy drill a tiny hole and put a screw thru jig and set the diameter and go for it.  Used that jig on the cutout for the ports and backers.  Just have to drill / countersink for mounting and install with silicone.  eventually I will have to remove them so will need to cut perimeter and pry out after removing screws.

Long version:

layed out some plastic on the level workbench, put down a piece of dollar store pillow case (cheap peel ply mistake)
The advantages?  The lids will get walked on a lot and these hopefully will be bullet proof, especially when prying out later.

You could do it with plywood overdrill & fill at screwholes then redrill and countersink would work just fine but I overthink stuff a lot, funny sometimes ridiculous at times.  Hopefully I am  running out of things to overthink.


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on April 17, 2019, 12:58:06 PM
Ok.  Got it.  Overthinking is my specialty!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 22, 2019, 03:05:44 PM
Brian,

You will probably laugh at this.  I finished with fuel tank inspection ports, the discs i made are between 3/8" and 7/16" thick.  The fiberglass tape I applied to the edge of openings protruded so I used the router set to proper depth to allow 1/16 of silicone sealer and trimmed with router.  I still had the template, easy.  then mixed up a slurry of epoxy and filled it up. 

Moved on to adding support to the front hatches, still need to put those together but pieces are cut and fit.

Life getting in the way a bit, helping my son move, Easter Sunday with grandkids so not a lot of progress.

Pics:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 23, 2019, 07:31:36 AM

Pretty slick!  Are you going to just use sealant to install the deck plates?  Or screws?  I was wondering if or when you plan to open them for inspection and what not and what your plans are.  They sure turned out cool .... haven't seen anyone else do this before and I like it :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 23, 2019, 09:10:48 AM
Brian,

I am going to drill and countersink holes, 6 on the little ones and 8 on the big one and use sealant or make a reusable silicone gasket.

 assembled the hatch covers last night, still have to cover with 1/8" plywood after glassing the underside and a couple sealing coats.

The white stuff is some leftover epoxy with white pigment I was using to fill the weave in case you were wondering.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 23, 2019, 09:25:23 AM
Have you looked at gasket materials such as soft sponge neoprene and related?  Seems like it might be easier or faster to just cut out a disk of soft neoprene and I'm pretty sure it's oil and petroleum product-proof.  I don't like working with goop if I don't have to :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 23, 2019, 09:34:51 AM
You are right, neoprene is closed cell and would be just fine to seal it up.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on April 23, 2019, 09:53:00 AM
I was looking at your fuel connections and it reminded me of something.  I always 2  use hose clamps where it fits.   Each opposite the other.  Then you have a spare to steal when one let's go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 23, 2019, 09:58:05 AM
You are right, neoprene is closed cell and would be just fine to seal it up.

Thanks!

Just an idea.  I know that in industry, I saw soft neoprene gasket material used a lot.... :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 23, 2019, 12:13:22 PM
I was looking at your fuel connections and it reminded me of something.  I always 2  use hose clamps where it fits.   Each opposite the other.  Then you have a spare to steal when one let's go elsewhere.

 Thats a good idea, I have 2 clamps on the fuel fill hose connections opposed like you mentioned.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 23, 2019, 01:44:52 PM
FYI - The ABYC guidelines recommend double clamps on all fuel fittings, including the vent line and return (diesel).  They (and the USCG) recommend re-usable, band-type (no wire clamps), 1/2" wide band or larger (on fuel fills), rolled-edge non-cutting bands, "non-perforated" bands, correctly sized and utilized, no less than 2 clamps on each connection, and they must be corrosion resistant.  316 stainless for offshore boats.  Linear equal-compression clamps, mounted 180 degrees out of alignment from each other, is recommended.  All fittings and clamps are supposed to be accessible, not expected to last longer than 10 years (USCG), and should be inspected annually or more often.  Enclosed spaces are recommended to have fume detection.  Lots more rules on ventilation, powered or not, for semi-permeable (plastic) tanks.  Speaking of tanks, I prefer aluminum and prefer zinc-chromate primer on the metal first, then a good hard bottom paint rated for below the waterline.  Standing water on tanks, inside tanks, and under tanks are the number one source of failure (corrosion).

The reality is that the perfect clamp is hard to find and that 90% of the boats out there don't follow these rules .... but why?  It's easy to do the research and buy the best you can find, and they don't cost much either.  I just looked at a US Boating article on a 'fuel system check-up' for your boat ... and EVERY PICTURE THEY SHOWED violated the rules above ... geez!  It's cheap to be the smart guy with fuel systems....

Off my pedestal...  Google is your friend :)


Brian

https://www.starmarinedepot.com/ideal-clamps-non-perforated-general-purpose-1.5-10-pack/pzz22187.html
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 23, 2019, 03:06:20 PM
I not sure I read the pamphlet correctly but fuel fill lines definitely need 2 clamps but the vent and hose from tank to engine look to be one clamp.

I could be wrong...

I did use the 316 stainless rolled edge clamps, $$ clamps 


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on April 23, 2019, 09:21:39 PM
Jeez, look what I started!   I dread the part where I have to start following ďrulesĒ.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 24, 2019, 08:57:25 AM
Now I have to read the whole chapter again, ha,ha,ha

Better to follow the rules now than later.... 
Some of the mentally challenging items for me, Electrical, Fuel systems and ventilation, read, read, and read again.   I am more of a hands on guy, show me how and I can do it.  If I read about how to do it thats when it can become more challenging.

This is what makes these forums great, lots of input and help.  Brian is and has always been most helpful in every aspect of my build and for that I am very thankful. 


 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Djeffrey on April 24, 2019, 09:02:46 AM
Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. Iím doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. Itís hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 24, 2019, 09:12:39 AM
Note two things ... I might be wrong on the 2 clamps on vent lines being required or not (old memory?), but fuel can and does go up and down a vent line, so at least the lower connection should have 2 clamps by good practice anyway.  Second, the ABYC guidelines (some call them standards) do indeed differ from the US Coast Guard (the included stuff above).  In particular, the ABYC and USCG differ on things such as square inches of scupper, how high scuppers must be above the waterline etc, time to drain water out of a boat, ventilation, and fuel system requirements.  This is why the plans do NOT specify these details but DO state that the builder must research local regs and comply on their own (their responsibility).  Someone has to be the tie breaker on which regs to follow, noting that while the USCG publishes Standard (must-comply), that they are for commercial manufacturers.  The ABYC publishes Guidelines, not Standards, that are optionally followed ... but God help you if you want to manufacture and sell boats that violate the ABYC guidelines!  They may as well be standards.

With homebuilt boats, it's up to you to follow what rules you choose - but the recommendation is to follow them all as closely as you can - they were written based on real-life situations where safety turned out to be lacking.  When the USCG and ABYC standards contradict, it's up to you to make a wise and considered decision on which to follow, or neither.  IF you are going to build an 'inspected' boat, e.g. you want a 30-foot Kodiak and a 6-pack captain's license so you can run a charter, then you will fail your commercial boat inspection if you don't follow the standards (you can decide on the contradictory ones and which to do - take your own chance with that).  From what I can see, inspections are more focused on safety items aboard than exact details on boat size versus scuppers, ventilation, or fuel systems - but you never know.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 24, 2019, 09:15:50 AM
Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. Iím doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. Itís hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!

One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist.  Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 25, 2019, 10:04:27 AM
Just makes good sense to me that when it comes to flammables on a boat better safe then sorry. Iím doing the whole thing, including a blower on my compartment. Itís hard to find a safe place on a burning boat. Just one retired firefighters opinion. Fire hot!!

One of the most common fuel related accidents that happen in Alaska (and I assume everywhere else) is for fuel fumes to sneak around through hidden passageways and under decks until the find a source of ignition ... usually the electrical panel where non-ignition proof switches and devices exist.  Consideration should be given towards prevention of fuel fumes from getting to dangerous parts of the boat ... even if you buy the shine and expensive Blue Seas ignition-proof electrical components (only), you can't guarantee that you or someone else make put a non-ignition proof device in the boat somewhere.

Brian


Very good point and well taken.  Its scary to think about a fire on a boat and makes me think even more about how important ventilation is underdeck.
 I do have plans for passive ventilation and I have also purchased a Jabsco 35760-0092 Heavy Duty Flangemount Blower, I have not decided or figured out where to install it.  I could mount it up near the cuddy bulkhead in front hatch drawing air from both side underdeck compartments and exhaust thru roof or mount at rear fishbox bulkhead drawing air from compartments below but I would still have to have air inlets from roof to the front compartments underdeck.  I have more t ime to think about that and would like to use the passive, they do make solar roof vents that can be incorporated, the jabsco may be more than I need.

It may be a pain to vent thru cabin roof I would have to box in the windshield/ side panel so I may see about venting thru cuddy roof instead.


On  20th thought, I may vent thru the anchor locker, may be the best option,

Some preliminary ideas:





Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 25, 2019, 10:34:30 AM
I put the skins on the bottom of the front hatches, I put down 10oz glass and 2 fill coats before bonding to the framework and used the router with flush trim bit and followed with a 3/8 round bit.  Way overkill but the lids do not flex.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: json on April 25, 2019, 12:27:54 PM
Wow... those are some hatch lids. I might have to follow your construction method and make some when I get there. I think I would kind of prefer overbuilt so the hatch lid isn't flexing or giving underfoot. It's kind of unnerving when that happens and you aren't expecting it when it's rough and you are concentrating on something else. Good stuff about the ventilation that I had no real idea about. It makes me wonder what else I have no idea about. :)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 25, 2019, 01:25:21 PM
Yeah ... those are the best hatch lids I've seen!

Ventilation: You have aluminum tanks?  If so, no ventilation required but passive is not a bad idea.  ABYC/USCG rules on ventilation require the incoming air to come from outside the superstructure.  An inline blower and a sheer deck (rear facing) vent works well.  You can make your own too ... just a hood over a hole, but there's a baffle in front of the hole to keep water from flowing in and a top baffle to keep splashes out:

PS: If adding ventilation, I would ventilate only the fuel tank compartments, using outside air and exhausting outside.  Bilge, if sealed from fuel tank compartments, doesn't need ventilation ... just open access during long term storage to drain and dry.  Inside cuddy and house, passive ventilation for most people is fine.

PPS: The vent below is also handy on top of the pilot house roof for passing wiring from inside the house to gear on the roof if necessary.  If you make the top screw-down, then it's removable to help route the wires.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: kennneee on April 25, 2019, 02:01:44 PM
Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 25, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
Brian- I love that design! I have been thinking about the same issue. Aluminum tank, to ventilate or not. With a sealed tank coffin there can still be fumes that can enter the bilge through the openings for hoses unless they are carefully sealed. With that in mind the blower seems like a good idea. Having the blower ventilate the entire bilge would also catch any fumes from the tank coffin, no?
I assume you would recommend an intake and exhaust vent?
Ken

The exhaust vent can simply blow into the cockpit area - doesn't matter where, as long as it goes somehow into the open cockpit area.  It's best if the tank area has no air passages to other under-deck areas.  That's easier than trying to vent everything everywhere.  I like to put centerline drain plugs through all under-deck bulkheads, but plug the ones that lead into and out of the fuel tank space 'coffin'.  If you've got air passages from the fuel compartment into other areas, now is a good time to open things up if you need to and to seal them, e.g. caulk where fill/vents etc go through stringers etc.  MOST fuel fumes issues are on poorly maintained boats that have developed untended leaks in bad places or have tanks that have corroded through.  If you seal nothing else, seal the under-deck bulkhead leading into the cuddy area where fumes could build.  I expect that a fumes leak into the pilot house would a) be noticed, and b) would be hard to reach a high enough concentration to ignite.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on April 29, 2019, 07:12:09 PM
On the Hatch Lids,

Originally added 3/8" with 10oz glass between the layers and another 10oz layer on top of the 3/8" thinking it would be strong enough.

In testing I supported the ends and stood / bounced and could tell it flexed but I did not consider that the hatch lid would be captured by the support it lands on on the longer sides so testing should have been to test flex on the short side.  It may have been enough..


So if I were to do it again I may not have needed all the extra support and if I were to remake I would omit the 3/8" and just add the perimeter and cross support pieces and put the 1/4" on top with glass on the inside because of the glass being in tension.

I believe I could drive a truck on them now, could be used for loading ramps. 

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on April 30, 2019, 05:17:13 AM

Better to be too strong than vice versa!  Others will benefit from how well you made yours .... extra strong or not!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 04, 2019, 08:49:17 PM
Update,

Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place.  I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.

Enjoy:
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 05, 2019, 07:28:43 AM


Fun to see the house coming together :).  That little bit of clearance that you show is fine .... You probably noticed that putting in the aft house bulkhead is tough enough on it's own.... the extra clearance makes it a little easier to get the bulkhead in place.  Looks like you can fill it by letting the lower side panels of the house fit into it, but either way ... it'll get filled one way or another.


Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 05, 2019, 01:24:07 PM
Is this the correct lower side panel / aft bulkhead profile?



 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on May 05, 2019, 02:15:18 PM
Update,

Went Turkey Hunting last weekend, not a bunch to show but I did manage to get the Aft Cabin Bulkhead clamped in place.  I am going to temp mount the side panels and draw windows holes so the aft cabin windows will line up with the side windows.

Enjoy:

Any luck?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 05, 2019, 04:23:00 PM
The Turkey had the luck! 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 06, 2019, 06:47:12 AM
Is this the correct lower side panel / aft bulkhead profile?

Yup ... that's the way you do it.  The inner edge will be straight (so sliding windows will remain slider instead of 'stickers' LOL), and with the transition shelf temporarily tacked on, you'll transfer the curved shape of the lower pilot house side panels onto it so you can cut it out to fit before installing it.  It helps to have a nailer installed along the top edge of the (curved) lower pilot house side panel - no more than 1/2" thick or so.  This nailer gives you something to tack the transition shelf onto, but will also act like a batten that gives the top edge of the side panel a smooth nice looking curve.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 06, 2019, 08:04:38 AM
Ok,

I made my pilot house shorter and the side panels are just under 96", so I went ahead and glassed a whole sheet of 1/4" and put on a fill coat last night. I will be able to cut the transition and lower side panels from one sheet.

Busy weekend, birthday parties, land clearing, track came off excavator...

Fixed the drawing:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 06, 2019, 01:37:54 PM

Yeah,  I noticed the orientation of the nailer before and neglected to mention it.  Having in the vertical orientation will allow it to bend.  You could use 2 layers of 1/4" ply as the 'nailer' too, putting one on at a time, so that the curve would be a little more pronounced.  It's just aesthetics either way.  I like curves better than straight lines.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 06, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
So the lower side panels top cut line will terminate with the cuddy side panels? not on top of the cuddy roof?


I might be a retard, brain strain sometimes.
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 06, 2019, 03:37:42 PM
So the lower side panels top cut line will terminate with the cuddy side panels? not on top of the cuddy roof?


I might be a retard, brain strain sometimes.

Just think of the lower pilot house sides blending right into the cuddy side panels.  The 'shelf' discussed above is the same thickness as the cuddy roof (doesn't have to be, but is best if the top of the shelf ply aligns with the top of the cuddy roof ply so it's easy to fair in).

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 06, 2019, 09:38:16 PM
Thank You!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 07, 2019, 09:06:07 AM
Thank You!

Blush.....  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 13, 2019, 11:58:18 AM
Not much progress since more Turkey Hunting last weekend  (Turkey won) and shrimping this Thursday thru Sunday but I did manage to get the lower sides and transition shelf glued in along with the aft cabin bulkhead.  No cloth or fillets just glued in.


When I get back from shrimping I will get back at it.

Bob

Pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 14, 2019, 07:29:18 AM
You're cracking right along and the boat's looking great!  Love the laser level ... good idea!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 14, 2019, 11:53:23 AM
I cut the nailer 5 degrees bevel which made it easy to make level on top.  The only issue I have after glue up is the transition is not perfectly strait like the photos done during mock up. Maybe screwed the parts down a different order so it has a slight bow, maybe 3/16".  I think I will just add (laminate) another transition piece right on top to straiten it out and keep going.





 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 14, 2019, 04:01:47 PM
Cracking along and neglected to glass the outer face of the aft cabin bulkhead before I glued it in.  Now I get to practice my vertical glass / epoxy ability.


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 15, 2019, 04:53:58 AM
Cracking along and neglected to glass the outer face of the aft cabin bulkhead before I glued it in.  Now I get to practice my vertical glass / epoxy ability.

Better than upside down glassing!  Did I tell you how I glued in the aft house bulkhead, top on one side of the line and the bottom on the other?  Nobody ever noticed the slight inward slope of the bulkhead ... :D

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 15, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
Inward slope is probably a good idea, may keep it from swinging open!

Off to the Shrimping Grounds for 4 days.  yum yum..
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 16, 2019, 09:27:39 AM
Inward slope is probably a good idea, may keep it from swinging open!

Off to the Shrimping Grounds for 4 days.  yum yum..

Yeah, that's it ... yeah, I did that on purpose!

Have fun shrimping!  It's one of the things I miss after leaving Alaska. 

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on May 29, 2019, 12:03:14 PM
 I am back and making some progress slowly.   Sucks counting out 160 shrimp and pouring the rest back to the sea.  Pulled these from 2 pots:

I added a second layer of 1/4" to straighten out the transition and it will blend in better to the cuddy roof.  As you can see I could have planned better when I placed the aft cabin bulkhead and will have to be a little creative to add a threshold that I can remove to access the inspection port. 

I  love the vertical polisher with 1" soft foam pad to sand back the overhang, hold it flat when you get close and it does a nice job without damage to the glass.


Next up will be vertical glassing of the aft cabin bulkhead.




Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on May 29, 2019, 06:10:55 PM

Nice shrimp ... too bad you only get 160 of them.  That's just one dinner for me :D

You may be glad for adding a threshold around that port cover ... it could be a nice way to pass wiring and what not from one side of the boat to the other in a hidden way :).  In any case, every boat has little oopsies ... we just hide them and tell people that's the way we wanted it :D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 03, 2019, 10:49:24 PM
I finished my vertical glassing of the aft cabin bulkhead.  Not nearly as hard as I thought, actually it was easy.  I pre-coated with epoxy and waited 3 hours then set the roll of 30" x 5oz glass on the floor and pulled it up to the top and used a small spring clamp to hold it at the top in one spot and smoothed it on with my gloved hands and trimmed the edges.  It stayed where I put it, wow!  Started mixing epoxy and rolling it on even put fillets in the corners with 4 in tape wet on wet.  No pics but I will update in a couple days.

I scarfed the plywood for the upper sides and will test fit before trimming and glassing (while flat on the bench of course)  Its amazing my scarfs are turning out pretty good now, at first they were troublesome.

Power planer until pretty close, 8" disc sander and a block plane until they fit together nicely which took a couple test fits. 

This is after power planer, I even tried a router with a jig but gave that up.  I should have taken a pic of it when it at the final stage.




 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 04, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
Looks as good as it gets!  I've never tried the router or circular saw methods ... have always just stacked the wood, drew lines on edges, then (bosch) power plane close ... adjust to whisker thin and finish - all power plane, with sometimes a little touch up with my Stanley low-angle block plane.

bd

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 12, 2019, 09:42:51 PM
I temp mounted the upper sides and marked out windows and windshield's.  i built them out of 1/2" just need to cut the holes and glass, and order some windows.

Would you glass before or after cutting?

On a side note I got a call from the Mercury dealer, I placed the order sometime in January and was told almost a year wait, but it came in.  Than makes me happy!

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on June 13, 2019, 06:45:49 AM
What model merc did you decide on?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 13, 2019, 07:24:23 AM
I temp mounted the upper sides and marked out windows and windshield's.  i built them out of 1/2" just need to cut the holes and glass, and order some windows.

Would you glass before or after cutting?

On a side note I got a call from the Mercury dealer, I placed the order sometime in January and was told almost a year wait, but it came in.  Than makes me happy!

Great news on the motor!  It motor-vates you to get the boat in the water too!

I always glass flat pieces before they go into the boat, and fair-in the seams after they're built (taper the edges of glass tape with a carbide scraper, flat/straight blade).  The less glassing you do inside the boat, the better ... which means 'the easier' and 'no glassing of vertical plywood'.  On plywood that will be curved when installed, you can only glass the inside of the curve, e.g. the inside of the boat side.  Putting glass on the convex side makes the plywood too stiff, but works just fine on the concave side of the bend.  Finally, for pieces that get holes cut out, like the sections of the windshield, I glass first, then mark and cut out the holes later .... and when they're the final size, seal the plywood edges inside the hole:  Slightly round over the edges of the cut-out, brush or roll plain epoxy into the end grain until it remains shiny even after 10-15 minutes, then let cure.  Hand sand all, wipe with wet cloth to clean well, then smear silica-thickened epoxy into all the end grain leaving a smooth white coat.  The first step above wicks epoxy into the wood cells.  The second step fills all micro-details in the wood and leaves it smooth and ready for final epoxy coats.  When you apply the final epoxy coats to those pieces, just roll the epoxy onto the edges of the hole while you're at it, and clean up any drips with a swipe of a foam brush.

Brian



Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 13, 2019, 08:07:59 AM
Todd,

I got the SeaPro 200, originally was going to go with Suzuki or Yamaha 4 cyl 200 but at discovered Mercs new motor at 483 lbs and 6 cyl torque I was hooked.


https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/seapro/200-300-hp/ (https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/seapro/200-300-hp/)

Brian,

I agree glassing vertical is not as fun,  I not sure if I want to roll out a full piece of fiberglass only to cut out the windows or just glass 8" wide around the perimeter and fair the overlap in.  Been sidetracked again helping daughter put in subfloor and pouring concrete and troweling to a smooth finish.  Took me 2 days to recover from that SOB!  concrete is relentless.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 13, 2019, 04:48:28 PM

I don't mind a little waste if it makes the job easier and faster, :)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Djeffrey on June 13, 2019, 04:50:20 PM
Bob, What did you have to pay for the engine?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 13, 2019, 05:04:06 PM
A little over 19k.  18,900 with DTS
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 16, 2019, 04:26:17 PM
I could change my name to molasses. 

Update some pics:  Not much but some progress.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: json on June 16, 2019, 06:41:23 PM
Man, I love watching these boats take shape. That looks great!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on June 16, 2019, 09:13:35 PM
Gotta feel good to see the house take shape.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 16, 2019, 09:37:32 PM
more candy:
Pretty nerve wracking with 2 pieces of equipment.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 17, 2019, 03:11:11 PM
Brian,

On the windshield panel's, is one layer of 9oz glass on each seam (inner and outer) sufficient or add a layer of biax?


Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 18, 2019, 04:57:49 AM
Brian,

On the windshield panel's, is one layer of 9oz glass on each seam (inner and outer) sufficient or add a layer of biax?


Bob

Just the one strip of 4" wide 9-oz glass tape on window joints is fine (inside and outside) .... it's tough.  No biax.  :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 20, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Gees,
75 days to get windows...  Motion Windows is what I am going with, Diamond Sea Glaze was way more $$.

Clear windshields and light gray tint on everything else.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Djeffrey on June 20, 2019, 07:10:50 PM
When you get a second can you maybe post the number of windows and the cost when you get a second. Thanks
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 20, 2019, 07:30:04 PM
Well it is more than I thought it would be, but tinted windows add some not sure how much.
10 windows was 3,700

on edit, Diamond Sea-glaze was $4,850 plus tax and shipping.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 21, 2019, 06:37:53 AM
A lot of people use Wynne Enterprises windows - fair price - They come in a wide variety of styles, custom fit, and different levels of sturdiness ... your choice of tint and type of glass (tempered, laminated, different thicknesses, etc):

  http://www.wynneinc.com/


Just an FYI - I have purchased Wynne windows myself in the past and was very happy.

Another way to save money is to use H-Channel (rubber) and Lexan / polycarbonate for windows that don't need to open and don't have wipers on them - Just buy custom windows for what you have to.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 21, 2019, 08:00:22 AM
I will give them a try, thank you for the info.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 21, 2019, 11:34:33 AM
I will give them a try, thank you for the info.

They're worth a look and the wait time usually isn't too bad.  They have 'clamp in' windows that do not require holes or screws in your preciously epoxy encapsulated window frames too.  The inner frame screws into channels in the outer frame of the windows, clamping your plywood between.  I think they can go down to 1/4" thick plywood ... but check.  You may need a border strip around the window opening to thicken it up for mounting windows.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on June 21, 2019, 02:45:05 PM
Just looked  1/8"-2 1/2"bulkheads
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 23, 2019, 08:03:39 PM
After a lot thinking and mocking up the sides again I moved the windows down so they would line up better with the windshields.  Still have port side to go.

I glassed both sides of the upper sides with 4oz. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on June 23, 2019, 09:33:35 PM
Oh man.  Thatís awesome!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Djeffrey on June 24, 2019, 07:09:19 AM
Looking great :)
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 24, 2019, 07:53:50 AM
Looks great!  You nailed the alignment!

Make sure there is enough boundary around each window for window frames to fit - Different brands will overlap the wood varying amounts.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on June 30, 2019, 08:45:53 AM
I installed the port side yesterday, I ran some blue tape along the pencil line I drew when test fitting, my contractor had an 8' strait edge I borrowed to make the line.  Install was easier than the other side, used the 1" brad nail gun and some small blocks covered with packing tape to make it stay in perfect alignment.  the other side I had rolled epoxy on the transition shelf then applied the glue and the blocks were slippery making it a little more challenging.  Learn as you go..

I will do the fillets and 4" tape on the seams today and cut the aft windows out, should have done that before bulkhead went up but I wanted to make sure windows were all somewhat uniform.

Couple pics: 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on June 30, 2019, 05:41:43 PM
From here, the alignment and style, fit & finish all look really good.  Including space for windshield wipers.  It's going to be a nice boat :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 01, 2019, 09:20:00 AM
"cut the aft windows out, should have done that before bulkhead went up"

Actually I am glad I did not cut them out, I ended up moving those down also to match up with side windows at the top.  I made them 28" tall,  hopefully looking aft from the helm will have a better view.

I did not get the fillets and taping done, connected upper/lower side aft where transition is and front transition where  meet windshield.

I should have used a strait edge when gluing in the front windhsield frames, I pushed them in tight to the windshield doubler,  maybe because of the angle not sure but they have a slight bow inward just at the bottom which I will have to fill before I glass the front.

Dang, wife needed here horse trailer tackroom floor replaced.... priority changed for a couple days.

Pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 02, 2019, 01:41:05 PM
Suggestions or advice please,

Contemplating / planning for foam sandwich roof, building off of the boat because I don't want to do it on the boat, its hot up there and a long ways down, scared....

In my busy mind I have tried to figure out whether to do a female mold or male mold (slat mold type). First thought was a male mold, screw down / clamp the 1/8" (3mm) then 1/2" corecell and then 1/4" okume, secure the foam and 1/4" from backside. I think I would have to do the 1/8" and foam at the same time, then add 1/4" for the exterior.  Wait for cure, then turn it over to glass the inner surface.. 


I planned for 10% spring back but it seems the glass on the underside would help the most with this issue rather than the sheer of several layers epoxied together. 


Which led me to think more about the female mold, attaching 1/4" then the 1/2" corecell, then 1/8 (3mm) at the same time seems to be a good plan, maybe all 3 layers at once, keep mixing and keep applying. 

Glass it while it is still in the mold on the interior surface before taking it out of the mold.

I see a few have done it but what I have found is mostly build on the boat style.


Anther question, How much gap between the aft cabin door and jamb should I allow?


 
   
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on July 02, 2019, 08:14:46 PM
Iím interested In using lighter materials up high as well.  Iím so far behind you I havenít really thought much about it.  I had a hard time following your male/female  versions of the mold.   Other than working on the ground, is there other advantages to building off the boat
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 02, 2019, 09:35:23 PM
First I must apologize for my ramblings, Brian is much better at explaining things, he makes it look easy.
 
The only advantage of building off of the boat is easy access to your work. I dont like the idea of dragging plywood and glass and epoxy on top of the roof while it is on the boat and working up there.  Its getting hot here and its darn hot on the roof...


One advantage is you can glass the inside of the roof (4oz should be plenty.) when still in the female mold which adds a great deal of strength as glass is strongest when in tension, like when you stand on the roof.  Standing on the roof places the underside in tension and the topside in compression. 

Here is some reading on foam sandwich: https://bateau2.com/howto/foam1.php (https://bateau2.com/howto/foam1.php)
And a video which helped me understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwABZT2pIn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwABZT2pIn8)

,in the video although they have foam stripped up for a much tighter bend, I am only guessing that the small curve of my roof will be manageable with the corecell foam which is roughly 40" x 80" and the plywood seams should overlap nicely.

Okume is the most expensive but it is light, I plan on 1/4" on the outside roof and 1/8" on the inside.

Not sure you ever need to stand on a roof though. 

Might be a little overkill but 3 sheets of 3/4" particle board with 2x4 backers and 1x2 slats, I can cut one mold out with a jig saw and use it for a pattern and cut the rest with a router and template bit..

Drawing of female mold:
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on July 02, 2019, 09:58:23 PM
Wow!  You have put some thought into ďramblingsĒ.  Makes more sense to me now.  I did check out some youtube videos on glassing foam.  Very promising.           
   How long did i it take you to be able to use sketch up?  Do/did you use it professionally.  I have a sketch up copy for ďa ten sided thingy that made your head hurtĒ(your words if I remember right)  from another board.  I canít  open it.  Have you explored it any?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 03, 2019, 09:53:40 AM
yes, Sketchup made my head hurt.  I hate the online version they have now, crashes and locks up on me.

When I first tried SketchUp after about an hour I removed it from my computer...

I came across a website Jays Custom Creations, you can download version 8 which you do not need a license for and he has tutorials and keyboard shortcuts and I have watched them all several times.

That was a game changer for me.  The 10 sided thingy I still cant figure out, wrong version and wont open but I get the idea of the design.

Link:

https://jayscustomcreations.com/sketchup/ (https://jayscustomcreations.com/sketchup/)
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: json on July 03, 2019, 12:57:04 PM
That's a great tip! Thanks rbob! I have been trying to figure out sketchup for a while, could never quite wrap my head around it. Looks like there is a nice long list of example videos that I can play with in my spare time to learn the ins and outs.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on July 06, 2019, 10:00:56 AM

Not sure what you mean by gap between cabin door and door jam?  And which door?  Cuddy door or pilot house?

On the roof construction, there's nothing wrong with doing it off of the boat and then putting it in place when ready. Either mold will work  Nice thing about a female mold is that you can place weight (sand bags?) inside to press the roof into the mold.  On a male mold, you have to put a row of clamps along the outer edge to hold the roof down.

Spring back?  If the roof springs back after removing from the mold, it'll pull back into shape when installed.  No worries.

Suggestions:

- I would still use 2 fore/aft roof stringers to support the roof over the pilot house... one on either side of the center companionway.  The are also handy for providing handles or grips (see the plans manual).  The foam roof w/thin ply outside and in is very strong, but the stringers will give the roof more weight capacity and stiffness.

- Be sure to build in 'nailers' (stringers) that run fore/aft or athwartships inside the roof so you have something to screw into for roof-mounted items such as antennas or whatever.  You can also provide solid wood 'hard points' (square areas) instead of foam for those areas as well - nice for cable pass-throughs or vents etc.  And I know it's difficult to do sometimes, it's a good idea to use a drill bit to make a shallow dent on each end of the stringers' centerlines or corners of hard-points.  Later, after the roof is painted and you've lost or forgotten the details, these little divets tell you where the solid wood is when you go to mount stuff.  Just sand them a tad so there's no sharp corners around your little countersinks, and coat w/epoxy and paint as always.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: First Draft on July 06, 2019, 06:54:27 PM
Excellent idea on those divots, Brian.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 06, 2019, 10:42:06 PM
Finished the fillets and glass tape on the windshield inside panels,  window sides inner and aft bulkhead in and out.


Roof rails are in the works:



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on July 21, 2019, 11:28:41 AM
Boat side lined for a bit, working on honey doo's and taking a 5 day fishing trip to LaPush for ling-cod, sea bass and hopefully some salmon.

Still need to make my roof form but I went ahead and made the pilot house door.  Not quite finished glassed one side, when I get back I will keep on.  some pics:



 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on July 22, 2019, 10:33:55 AM

Have fun on the trip!  The door looks good .. and will stay flat :)

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: tom eastgard on August 02, 2019, 10:20:25 AM
Rbob,  I think I may have lost you, but you seemed to write that the ⅛" sheeting would be on the outside and the ľ" on the inside.  Ignoring any structural issue, I would be inclined to put the ľ" on the outside/top.   While you would have blocking in the sandwich on which to mount things -- radar/antenna/lights/etc., having the extra material over the whole roof would provide more protection from wear and tear and give you something to mount some small device outside of the blocking.

My $0.02  te
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 02, 2019, 10:56:36 AM
All good Tom,

You are correct, I think I was talking about the male mold putting down the 1/8" inch first which would be the inside.

Quote
In my busy mind I have tried to figure out whether to do a female mold or male mold (slat mold type). First thought was a male mold, screw down / clamp the 1/8" (3mm) then 1/2" corecell and then 1/4" okume, secure the foam and 1/4" from backside. I think I would have to do the 1/8" and foam at the same time, then add 1/4" for the exterior.  Wait for cure, then turn it over to glass the inner surface..
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 02, 2019, 11:16:29 AM
Back from LaPush, Salmon Fishing sucked (have to release native Coho) but limits everyday of Rockfish and Ling Cod.

Slow progress but it is moving, have to finish a house porch addition in the next couple weeks which will put a  **** in the boat build.

I did get the mortise latch cut out, it was my first attempt and I had the help of a friend who knew more than I and he had the sharpest chisels I have ever seen (scary sharp).  My eyesight sucks for close up detail work  so I am not super proud but happy it will suffice. 

Started gluing up the door jamb, added 3/4" CVG Fir and will add a 1/4" plywood spacer then another 1/2" plywood that will protrude 3/4" inward to install the door seal onto.

Clamped strait edges to the top and sides.

some pics:

 


 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on August 02, 2019, 11:03:01 PM
Did you end up deciding where to buy your windows?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 03, 2019, 06:26:44 AM

Looking good and doing a great job ... Say, that's awfully pretty wood that your boat/deck/superstructure is made from.  Is it Okoume?  Maybe you should finish the whole boat with varnish :D

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 03, 2019, 08:23:56 AM
Todd,
Leaning towards Motion Windows.  They were 7 weeks out last I talked to them.  Diamond Seaglaze was way more money and even though they dropped their price from the original bid 15% I think I will pass driving into Canada to get them.  Motion Windows is about 1 1/2 hour away.


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 03, 2019, 08:29:26 AM
Brian,

Yes, Okoume, it is about 1/2 the weight and twice as much $

I did not show the door jamb detail, the door is 1-1/4" thick, so I built up the jamb, it is not 5" wide like the drawing shows:







Looking good and doing a great job ... Say, that's awfully pretty wood that your boat/deck/superstructure is made from.  Is it Okoume?  Maybe you should finish the whole boat with varnish :D

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 03, 2019, 01:27:08 PM
I messed up a couple boards, sometimes I am retarded....

So came in and took a break and looked at weatherstrips and decided to go with trim-lok. Just need to make the 1/4 inch border without screwing up this time.

Trim-lok :


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 04, 2019, 06:58:58 AM
Good choice.  The tube-type door seal works best (versus foam or other ideas).  It's forgiving and works.  :)

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 09, 2019, 08:45:52 PM
Even though I am in house remodel mode, I did get the aft cabin bulkhead pretty much finished, need to do some final fitting before installing hinges on door and bulkhead.

I put 6oz tape on the opening and 3 layers on the bottom and added the 1/4" to capture the bubble seal. 

more pics:



Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 10, 2019, 08:08:29 AM

I'm glad you're making progress in spite of those house duties ... don't I know how that goes!  All that work you're putting into the door, the well thought out details and the effort you're making to make sure the door frame and door are flat and square, is going to pay off.  With the seal around the door, you'll cut a lot of noise - probably will have the quietestl GA pilot house out there!

Brian

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: First Draft on August 11, 2019, 05:30:08 PM
What's going on with that hatch directly below the bulkhead?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 12, 2019, 07:50:18 AM
That was poor planning on my part.  I will have to build a "chase" over it which will serve a dual purpose. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: First Draft on August 15, 2019, 12:37:32 PM
I can appreciate the "poor planning" part extremely well.  It seems that I can spend hours upon hours of trying to plan where to lay out something and I always run into a similar issue.  Hell, I don't make many more boo-boos if I just "wing it" and not spend any time planning.
As I like to say in my home repair business: "Measure twice, cut once, then beat it into place with a hammer!"
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 15, 2019, 12:44:44 PM
speaking of measure twice and cut once, what do you think of my carpenter/s rafter cutting ability?  I fired him way too late, I discoverd all of the rafters look very similar, which is wny I am not making much boat progress...

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 15, 2019, 12:50:26 PM
I received my roll of door weather-strip, it fits great, just need to get hinges and door installed.

Brian, not sure I need to glass where the door seal is installed.  Can I just omit glass where the seal fits?


Bob
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on August 15, 2019, 03:00:02 PM
 Now that you have your gasket in hand how do you think that would work with a slider.  Looks good
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 15, 2019, 03:44:06 PM
Slider door is different, this is more of a compression seal, I am not sure how slider seals work.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: First Draft on August 16, 2019, 10:52:54 AM
Yeah, that's a pretty bad rafter job Rbob.

On your boat - I, personally, would glass every last piece of exposed wood, whether it's on that door or not.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Jim_Hbar on August 16, 2019, 11:24:16 AM
I believe that the general consensus is lite glass and epoxy encapsulation on all wood is the "Best" course.

If my rememberer is working correctly, I believe it was Kent Cannon that did "epoxy saturation only" on some interior woodwork, and ended up warning us NOT to do that.  The wood checked and the epoxy cracked within a year or two.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 16, 2019, 01:21:00 PM
I know it is better to glass everything but Kent used fir plywood which is very prone to checking,  some people use mdo and epoxy coat only.  Not sure if the okoume is prone to checking when coated with epoxy only.

Rather than regret it later I will glass it.


I guess the real issue for me is I do not want to add thickness that will prevent the door seal from fitting.  I will have to glass a scrap piece of 6mm and see.  6mm is just under 1/4", crossing my fingers.

On the interior of the cabin do most people just paint over epoxy coated wood?
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 17, 2019, 08:19:18 AM
If you have any worries about checking, even a light 1-1/2 oz glass sheathing will eliminate the risk.  I glass everything, inside and out, for the primary hull, cuddy sides/roof, and pilot house components.  For accommodations such as cabinets, seating, storage, closets, etc .... things that are inside and out of the weather, epoxy by itself is fine... this stuff is not the 'primary boat' and can be replaced if necessary.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 18, 2019, 09:58:33 PM
I installed the boat door today, I am soo happy to get this done. Still need to mortise the jamb side hinges but I wanted to make sure it had a even gap all around and it does.

I made a template for the hinges and mortised all 4 at once.  I will cut the window out soon.

Pics:
 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 19, 2019, 07:30:27 AM

Nice job fitting everything!  Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on August 19, 2019, 07:40:26 AM
Everything looks really good.   NIce work
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 19, 2019, 07:41:56 AM

Nice job fitting everything!  Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?

Brian

The door window is marked out for cutting but I wanted to make sure no adjustment was needed to align with the other windows.  It is marked on the inside and I did not check but I will tonight.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on August 19, 2019, 10:26:21 AM

Nice job fitting everything!  Did you decide against a window in the door, or is that coming later?

Brian

The door window is marked out for cutting but I wanted to make sure no adjustment was needed to align with the other windows.  It is marked on the inside and I did not check but I will tonight.

Cool ... looking forward to seeing it.  VERY nice job on the door and framing!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 19, 2019, 09:46:33 PM
Surprisingly the windows will line up as marked. I went ahead and mortised the jamb side hinges and cut the window hole out:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: First Draft on August 21, 2019, 09:18:48 AM
Outstanding work, sir!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on August 22, 2019, 07:53:08 AM
Thank you First Draft, but its marginal at best..  You would laugh to see me with 2 pairs of glasses on to do my detail work. If only my arms were 4 feet long.

Trying to finish up the Remodel this weekend so not much happening on the boat for a bit. 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: jklistof on September 01, 2019, 11:01:24 AM
Bob,

I have enjoyed your build. Makes a guy think about building a boat.

John
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Djeffrey on September 01, 2019, 09:34:51 PM
Bob, what did you use to paint under the floor
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on September 02, 2019, 07:53:24 AM
Thank you John, you and your boat have been an inspiration for me, love your boat!

Djeffrey,

Under the deck I used epoxy with white pigment but in the fish box and forward hatch I used Ebond 106 Polyamide coating.  You will need a respirator if you use it, powerful fumes!

Still finishing up the remodel and helping my daughter paint her house this weekend (labor day)  but should be back on the boat grind soon.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 06, 2019, 01:01:54 PM
Just finished with painting daughters house and remodel at home.

Time to get back on my boat build.  I taped the plywood edges on all window and rear door opening.  I found they make tape .5 inch wide, perfect.   I rolled epoxy on the edges, 2 coats and let it get tacky before applying the tape so it would stay put which it did then rolled more epoxy onto it, even did the 1/4" edge on the aft cabin door stop.

I been putting off going into the cuddy for the inside fillets and 4" glass but today that is my goal for today. 

pics:

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: tom eastgard on October 07, 2019, 08:25:08 AM
Rbob,  "...You would laugh to see me with 2 pairs of glasses."   I know exactly what you mean!  My wife tells me it's especially entertaining to watch me try to work on something upside down and close to my face.

te
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 14, 2019, 01:03:41 PM
I will say that I should have glassed the aft cabin door  "door stop" both sides before installing, what a p.i.t.a.

I went ahead and glassed the edges of the sole port holes, cuddy door opening, both sides of the aft bulkhead door stop and the aft cuddy door. 

I think I will finish installing the hatch lids, finish glassing the sole then the seating and interior before the roof.       

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 15, 2019, 07:51:21 AM

Well ... I will say that you're doing a great job on the glassing :)  And yes, I believe in glassing everything you can prior to installation of the part ... only glassing what you have to on the assembled boat.  Keep up the great work and thanks for our continuous stream of photos!  We get to enjoy your progress and build process with you!

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 21, 2019, 03:32:48 PM
I glassed both sides of cuddy bulkhead ( should of glassed it before I installed), the cuddy bunk tops, edges of hatches and area in front of the windshield.  I also added fill coats on all of the above.

I started with the hatch Frame install but more fitting to do, need to pull the frames back out and trim a little due to interference.  Building your own hatches and frames adds a lot of time to the build, I hope they are worth it.

One thing to note, the rear hatch is insulated and is a bit taller so the glass did not want to lay down over the top edge so I used some 3" wide ribbon (like peel-ply) to make it stay down.  It is soo much flatter where the ribbon was, no "filling the weave" on that.

I may just get some peel ply for the floor and cabin roof, just need to justify the expense.

A few pics below but not much to show for all my work I did this weekend.

 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Todd j on October 22, 2019, 07:57:52 PM
Looks great.   It will be exciting to see your project as a whole.  Itís turning out quite nice.
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 27, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Brian,

When glassing the cabin sides to the sheer decks and to the boat sides can I use one piece of glass or should I use 4''x 9oz tape on the seams and then add glass to cover all...


Bob 
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 28, 2019, 07:09:04 AM
Brian,

When glassing the cabin sides to the sheer decks and to the boat sides can I use one piece of glass or should I use 4''x 9oz tape on the seams and then add glass to cover all...


Bob

If you're glassing cuddy or house sides after they're installed on the boat, then there's no reason you can't run the glass down and over the fillets where the sides meet the sheer deck.  I prefer 9-oz over those seams and the glass on the cuddy/house sides are likely only 6 oz or so (maybe even 4 oz), so you'll have to figure out how to increase the glass on the seams, e.g. run sheer deck glass over the seams (if you haven't already glass the sheer decks).  Make sense?  I'm sure you can get away with lighter glass, but then I stop and think of a big sneaker wave slapping the side of the house with high weight and momentum .... extremely unlikely, but ?

Brian
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on October 29, 2019, 07:55:26 AM
9 oz glass on the seams it is, one way or the other.

Thanks you Brian!
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 29, 2019, 09:34:33 AM
9 oz glass on the seams it is, one way or the other.

Thanks you Brian!

On seams, unless otherwise called out, the only thing that matters is the total weight of glass over the seam that has 2" or so overlap onto the wood on either side.  There are always lots of ways to build up to the minimum required weight (or beyond).  Stacking order, wider tape down to narrower tape or vice versa, is insignificantly different.  I tend to go narrow first, wider tape/glass follows, first layer 2" or so onto the wood and each subsequent layer going an inch (both edges) wider than the prior tape layer.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Jim_Hbar on October 29, 2019, 11:14:58 AM
The second major issue after the amount of glass you lay on to the corner, is the quantity of fibers removed or cut sanding the corner.  If the fibers aren't continuous, they aren't doing squat.

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on October 29, 2019, 01:16:19 PM
The second major issue after the amount of glass you lay on to the corner, is the quantity of fibers removed or cut sanding the corner.  If the fibers aren't continuous, they aren't doing squat.

True ... If you sand the glass off, you need to re-glass it.  I give hints in the manual on how to glass a 3-sided corner and get it smooth ...
Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on November 05, 2019, 12:05:19 PM
I ordered some peel-ply and going to use it on the deck and roof when I get to it.  Gave it a try on the hatch covers and looks like there may be some benefit at least on the flat panels.  It should make for a lot less sanding and a non issue for blush since it peels away.  I purchased the 2.74 oz x 60" and for $3.55 a yard so its not a big deal comparing cost to labor and epoxy.

Pic:


Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Brian.Dixon on November 05, 2019, 01:24:09 PM

Nylon Taffeta is a lower cost alternative to peel ply, although it looks like you got a pretty good deal, so may as well stick with the real McCoy ... I'm just throwing out a point of information on the topic.

Brian

Title: Re: Bob from Olympia, 28 GA build
Post by: Rbob on November 05, 2019, 09:33:00 PM
The pic above is the imitation from Walmart, I believe it was polyester taffeta almost $5 a yard and it works good except that it was folded up and I wish I would have rolled it onto a cardboard tube cause it did not lay completely flat (folds left a line)

This pics below is the Peelply from Fiberglass supply 2.74 oz ( they do have a cheaper one)